Recourse for non-performance by TommyZ

[Big Blue Ox]

My Dad used to tell me, "If you make someone wait, you should listen, and wait before you respond."

He was talking about conversations, like the one you are having here.

I know, you didn't ask for my advise. But it might be helpful to you in the future.

[akwares]

Originally Posted by tommyzdesign

no chuck , i sent him his refund before he did that , he contacted them for the 20$.
i do understand what your saying, im not attacking him , i just want to clear up all the lies that have been spread.

Sorry TommyZ, I tried to stay out of this, but here you have misspoken once again. This is a subject you probably shouldn't have even brought up in the first place, TommyZ. The only one that looks bad in this situation is you.

Your statement above is absolutely wrong. I won't stoop to your level and call it a lie, I'll just take the high road and assume you are ignorant of the facts.

I will choose to ignore all the other BS that you and Moe have stated about me here, it is not worthy of response.

In fact, I contacted the Michigan AG long before I ever received 1 cent from you, TommyZ, and did so in order get a refund for the full amount you owed me, $150, since it did not appear you would ever fill my order. You can go check out my complaint at the AG's office, it is public record, to see the time I submitted it and the amount requested. Remember, I've been asking you for either product or a refund since FEBRUARY 2007.

In fact, the AG later sent me a letter with a copy of an email from you to him, stating that you had paid the full amount. Based on your email, they therefore considered the case closed unless I had other information. I wrote them back and told them to go ahead and close the case, but that they should know that you in fact did not send me $150, but only a partial payment of $130. I did not ask them to pursue the case further, as you seem to imply, for the $20. I had someone else take care of that for me after you failed to respond to my request for refunding the balance.

I have only given straight facts of my situation with you, TommyZ, in order for other members here to be aware of the potential risks involved in dealing with you. At the beginning, I stated publicly on the forums here that I would be the first one to support you if you would come through as repeatedly promised, but instead, you have repeatedly made misstatements to me, failed to deliver product, and you only refunded my money after I contacted the AG. All of your actions make it hard for me to support you now, TommyZ, and in fact, I feel an obligation to the great members of this forum to alert them to potential problems in dealing with your business. These are all facts, Tommy, I can't change them. How you deal with the facts is up to you, however.

I think your actions and words are doing far more damage to your business than any facts I can bring to light. Just go look at the Chrysler 300C forums and see how many unhappy customers you have over there, TommyZ, for the exact same issues. I didn't have anything to do with that! I didn't create your mess, I just shed a little light on it! If you can't stand in the light of the truth, well, buddy, I feel sorry for you.

In the future, TommyZ, please refrain from making misstatements about me or my actions, so that I don't have to once again clean up after you. We all have better things to focus on, and I prefer to focus on positive things regarding our trucks and our good vendors, of which there are many.

My suggestion to you, TommyZ, would be to close up your business, go to school and take some business classes, focusing on customer service, and come back, reopen your shop, as a new man. I think you have some great ideas for car customization, but you are failing miserably as a businessman and as an honest, decent human being. I think you've got potential, TommyZ, but you are throwing it away with your rather adolescent viewpoint and actions. You are clearly not ready to run a business! Grow up, wise up, and come back to us when you have an honest, quality service to provide. You are way over your head, TommyZ. Right now, you are doing us more of a disservice, as well as yourself, by even opening your mouth here on our forum.

Despite my lecture, I, and I believe many of us, are pulling for you, TommyZ, but it's up to you to do the right thing.

Now try to respond like a good businessman, don't mess this up for yourself any more than you already have, TommyZ.

[Maui Mike]

Here's my end and I'm done w/ this. I asked 4 members on the SAME day to make the lights for me. The idea came from Ken Thurm's & SINISTER.

2 backed out and 2 made them. Lonnie was 1st and all I have ever rec'd from TZ was 1 photo of 1 taillight, not both. Lonnie's Lights have been a BIG HIT and have taken off and made alot of us HAPPY! It's good morale here and good business. I for 1 am very happy w/ them!

Tommy you emailed me at least 9 times, said that they were done and shipped. YOU LIED! Period, end of story. Can't ship what you don't have when they are over at 3g for tooling for mass production. I'm waiting for custom one off lights that you intended to mass produce. You were even pissed off at me for giving Lonnie the idea too and now I've cost you sales. 3g has had them for at least 6 months that I can figure thru various emails. You never once asked if it was OK to make me wait while they are tooled. You kept sending email after email stating that they have been shipped. So here I am on my end looking for stuff to arrive that never comes.

It's been a year, it's old, we're tired of this. You want to make it right, make right by me and all the others that are either owed money, parts or an apology. Communicate properly and state the truth, the lies catch up w/ you, isn't that one obvious brother?

Think before you respond. I have every email for the past year. And one last thing that you PROMISED, was a FREE Bowtie-less Grille Bar and grille mesh for all my troubles. You shipped those too and I've never rec'd them either.

3g has nothing to do w/ this and Doug and his sons are stand up guys! They were caught in the middle w/ me. I want that perfectly crystal clear to all readers.

[Buffy]

OK, gang. Everyone has said their piece, so let's close this topic and move onto some FUN stuff!

Thanks,

[crazyrtr53]

Originally Posted by Whitewolf

Being around this site for a few years make you the Pro????????I guess you are the Oracle----------And you can get your paint brush out and sling your crap all over the place..............I suggest that before you start spouting off......you inguage your brain.........Yes Tommy Z is a pain and has made alot of enemies in here......He's not on my good side either.............But throwing everybody else that makes and sells parts and peices in this forum, in the same boat with him is not smart either.........There are a lot of members that make some speciality parts......as I do........that are a small operation and do it as a hobbie........This is the way we do business........When I make parts .....I ship on or before the schedule date....most of the time , before.......There were a few times when I was bouncing in and out of the hospital......that I was a day or two late......It bothered me......But I think most people understood....... For you to pop off like this is a shame......and I take it personal!!!!!!!!!! And I imagine that a lot of others in here that do too.........Some may not want to bothered any longer to supply parts if they are painted with your brush..... My 2 1/2 cents worth, Wolfie Sorry for my rant.....but this struck me wrong...........

But when someone asks for 100's of dollars up front with an estimated date of shipping it should throw up a red flag, that was the key word in my sentence PATTERN. You were never in that pattern you sold a quality product when promised and nothing was ever said bad about your business practice and you communicated when you had problems, don't know why you thought you were included in the PATTERN. That's all I'm going to say about it, Sam tried to warn everyone about Axiom and got into a pissing match with people and is not around now but was RIGHT!!!......
Buyers should not forward funds they can't afford to loose...
I have bought a lot of parts from our vender's and have been completely satisfied with better service than large corporations offer but when I see my fellow friends (Fanatic's) get taken for hundreds of dollars with no communication you bet my crap brush is coming out to paint a picture.....
Again I'm sorry my comment struck you wrong...
Enough said...
Happy ing

[Maui Mike]

I asked that this be re-opened. PLEASE be civil and state the facts. This will NOT turn into another AXIOM ordeal or it will be closed!

Thank you to WhiteWolf and to Lonnie for pointing out the hobbyists point of view. It needed to be said.

Tommy, I've sent you copies of alot of your emails to me. I will not post them here as I believe that PM's and emails are private. Read your own words to me before you respond.

Thank you BUFFY!

[my05ssr]

I should have taken all the warning I saw here and not buy from TommyZ. Well to make a long story short I paid for a smooth hood piece and it is now 2 months , I did get the part from him well from Susan and it was not right and sent it back and have gotten the replacement yet. I guess it's my turn to send off a letter to the Attorney General and will also do a Internet crime complaint at Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) | Home

[MoodyBlue]

This is why we need to discuss the issues or problems with some vender's. I luckily have had no problems and have always sent Pm's to those Honest and forthright vender's, thanking them for their prompt and courteous service. Maybe my luck was due to my consulting other Fanatics concerning their dealings with vender's that deal on this site. I think this is important. So what I propose is a Vendor rating chart, Perhaps on a scale of A. B. C. D. This way there is no muss no fuss. The Vender's will receive what we receive.

[tommyzdesign]

roger , you did receive the hood applique and then 3 weeks later you sent it back because their was a "chip" in it.... so we repainted it for you free of charge and as of tues/ weds this week you wanted to add the full smoothie bar to the order so we could send them both back to you in the same box. our problem was you didnt want to pay for the smoothie until you got it, which is understandable , but we arent in the position to do that for everyone.

if you would like , ill have susan paypal you the 170 or so back to you within the hour.
we do not take money from anyone , nor will we ever.

we are 100% power sellers on ebay and anyone that knows ebay , knows theirs no faking that . yes we have had problems in
delivering products in certain cases on time , but in the end every order is fullfilled and the customer is takin care of.


tz

[SSRNoir]

Wow...I have been building and restoring cars for 35 years now. Been burned once but I too sent money before finding out the product was not yet even produced.

TommyZ:
1. Apologize for bad business practices and mean it. This is a basic Dale Carnegie sales practice.
2. Make amends in a way that makes it better for the customer at the end. This means that after taking peoples money, failing to deliver as promised, etc...just giving back the cash is not enough. Did you ever ask "What can I do to make this up to you?" Remember you failed not the customer who paid you up front in good faith.
3. Take it to heart that you do have fans, make them and others Raving Fans through exceptional service. What you do now is clearly not acceptable to some of your SSR target customers. Learn from it, fix it and do not think it was ever acceptable from a business best practices standpoint.

I am a 49 year old business man who, when mistakes have occured (and they do), have paid for all the consequences in full and then some so that at the end I retained my customer. I learned this from great people and it has never failed me.

Put processes in place to better your business and then improve the perception by others about your business. You've got real potential but this is a serious business situation for you. Learn from it...be humbled by it...change the circumstnces that created it...and be better without it.

IMHO

[tommyzdesign]

az , i seriously respect your wisdom as a business owner , we are striving to get back our great name in service and innovation , we have subsecuently lost money on many orders due to overnight shipping or adding more parts to orders to try to ammend our doings. , that is the reason why i decided to repaint the piece free of charge to make him happy or at least console as much i could.
respectfully ,

tz

[my05ssr]

I just want what I paid for in a timely manner and it to be free of defects and to get a response to my emails also in a timely manner not have to wait for over a week every time, waiting over two months for such a little part is a bit much don't you think.

If you did it right the first time it would not have to be done over, and just for the record from day one I told Susan about the chip and so everyone knows the chip was there before it even got painted so you are not doing me any favors by saying you re-painted it for free. I am not looking for free stuff from anyone, I pay for what I get and expect to get what I pay for. As for the other part I was not asking for it to be sent for free I told Susan when I wanted it but after over a week and no response to my emails and now it was too late for any auction to be taken in Paypal and ebay I had to post here as I was not afraid I would not get my piece.

You have been trashed by many on not only this forum but I still wanted to buy from you and if you remember we started to exchange emails from September 2007 and finally got a piece from you in April 2008, I have been waiting a long time.

[tommyzdesign]

roger , just tell me what you want us to do , we can either send you the hood peice tomorrow or return your money tomorrow , i dont build custom parts nor vehicles for money its for my love of cars and trying to make peoples personalized vehicle.

[XSELER8]

Originally Posted by MoodyBlue

So what I propose is a Vendor rating chart, Perhaps on a scale of A. B. C. D. This way there is no muss no fuss. The Vender's will receive what we receive.

I like your idea. However, we tried a "Quality Vendor" List. Everyone's name ends up on it. Ratings or comments would be valuable. If a vendor has reasonable, questionable complaints against him...buyer use caution and don't be disappointed with your transactions. You were warned.

[MoodyBlue]

Originally Posted by XSELER8

I like your idea. However, we tried a "Quality Vendor" List. Everyone's name ends up on it. Ratings or comments would be valuable. If a vendor has reasonable, questionable complaints against him...buyer use caution and don't be disappointed with your transactions. You were warned.

Thanks; I was wondering if other Fanatic's would give their valuable information on this subject.

This is why I just gave a sample of what I was thinking. I didn't want someone to post some hatefull coments, just a rating, and a warning would be fine too. I was thinking just keep it simple.

Thanks: Frank

[WOW_FCTR]

We are closing this thread for now.

The option of vendor ratings is being discussed.