I know a few of you have been following the build. I got the rod back today with new comp 232/232 .595 lift 112lsa cam and kooks headers. I took a video of the best dyno pull. 411.53 rwhp and 400.25 rwtq, sae corrected so I picked up 65 hp. Don said he could have gotten more hp at the cost of low end torque so he kept it this way. Wow! Totally drivable but super fast. I will take a picture of the dyno printout and post it.
My SSR: "Slingshot Yellow" 05 auto License plate "BIG V8"
Awesome
That sounds totally awesome. I can feel my money gettin hot in my pocket. I have played th clip a few times and it just sounds better every time I hear it. I'm gonna save it on my computer.
Sincerely It sounds great! Now you gotta remember shiney side up ;^)
The truck turned out very good.It litterally drives like stock at any rpm,just with more hp.The 4.56 gears definitely hurt dyno #'s but I was still surprised we were at 400rwtq with them.
Olaferickson your SSR sounds exceptional. I've played your clip about five times. I just love the lope in your idle. I may have to break open my piggy bank.
I am so glad that everything turned out just the way you wanted. That is a great Normally Aspirated Cam and it shows now that you have the dyno sheet to prove it. Enjoy the extra power and just dont smokem too much.
I just got back from dunkin donuts were I saw the pack of old timers that prety much spend the whole day there. When I pulled up They all stopped what they were doing and turned to look. When I walked in one of them asked me What size big block I put in her I told all of them about the build and they where all very impressed. I think it brought them back to the days of p-51 mustangs and what not. I think I made there day and they made mine.
I'm glad I have a good relationship with my neighbor. My only two modes of transportation are my 05 ssr which you all know has that nice ginsu chop and my 01 HD Fatboy which is actually quieter. On top of that I leave for work at 2:30 am. He does not mind though, I think he lives vicariously through me. He is married with two kids and has the nice BMW and he has at least 15 years on me.
No, One of my first questions for Don "slowhawk" was what I could do and still pass Emissions for Mass inspection. No light. My only problem may be the lack of mufflers which is a quick cheap fix.
My SSR: 04 Smoken Asphalt, HP tuned, FlowMasters, TransGo Shift kit, 411 Gears, Mikes Aux Fan
Sounds fantastic. The lope at idle, like other have mentioned, let's everyone know that there is a can of woop a$$ about to be opened on the pony.
Job well done.
I know a few of you have been following the build. I got the rod back today with new comp 232/232 .595 lift 112lsa cam and kooks headers. I took a video of the best dyno pull. 411.53 rwhp and 400.25 rwtq, sae corrected so I picked up 65 hp. Don said he could have gotten more hp at the cost of low end torque so he kept it this way. Wow! Totally drivable but super fast. I will take a picture of the dyno printout and post it.
I would say to bring it to a experienced performance mechanic. I think there is a lot more available for ls based engines but I'm not sure. Maybe look in summit or jegs to get an idea. with 700 cc's less I would say around a 220/220 or something like that.
There is plenty of aftermarket documentaiton on the effectivenss of a 2002 (NOT a 2001!) Corvette Z06 cam plus matching Z06 beehive factory valve springs.
When I changed our my stock 04 cam to that 02 Z06 cam, and also went to dual exhaust, the combination added approximately 80 rwhp. Got my 04 SSR (before supercharging) to 331 rwhp. No emissions and no driveability problems. That's about as good as it gets.
If you want to learn more about how both LM4 (03/04 SSRs) and LS2s (05/06 SSRs) respond to different parts swaps, read Will Handzell's book. Sorry I don't have the title of the book in front of me, but almost every Barnes & Nobles has one in their automotive section. Handzell has a dyno printout in the book specfically for an LM4 that has had only the cam swap (no exhaust enhacnements) and the cam alone gives close to 40 hp on an engine dyno or about 32 hp at the rear wheels. The dual exhaust system uncorks the rest of the potential. Handzell used to run the GM Performance Division, so I suspect he knows what he is talking about.
olaferickson: Your point of peak torque only moved up maybe 300 rpm with the much wilder cam duration than stock, and your engine is running out of air at 6000 rpm despite a cam engineered for 6500 or more. That tells me you have another cork in the system, and my guess is exhaust. I suspect that if you get a true dual exhaust on there (see earlier posts using "true dual exhaust" or "Dual Shotgun exhaust" as the search key), you might be surprised just how much power you pick up.
Jim here is what I have now. It has the split like you suggested. I know that I need to start from scratch so I don't have so many seems. It is a bit mickey moused right now.
I don't have any mufflers on her now I was thinking of having a single 4 inch pipe off the header y pipe and then splitting it to 2, 3 inch pipes with bullets around the rear axle.
Looks to me like you don't ahve enough cross-sectional area during that "joined" section.
The diameter there must be large enough to have twice the cross-sectional area of each individual output pipe (so that there is no "squeezing" of the exhaust in total cross-sectional area).
Since cross-sectional area = Pi x Radius squared, the diameter of that section must be at least 1.4 times the individual outlet pipe diameters.
You are right now forcing your engine to blo through a small straw.
My SSR: 03 Redline Red,magna charger blower,Dyna Tech headers,Flowmaster American Thunder exhausts,Gears 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgetz
What would a comparable cam grind (rumpety rump) be for the 2004?
Here is the grind I have in my 03- INt.222-114-581 Ex.224-114-581. This cam was done by competition cams. When you change the cam be sure & change the oil pump & timing gear & chain. The factory ones are not that great. below are the dyno numbers for my 03 with Magna-charger:
Max hp at rear wheel 402.7 max torque 380.2
With the 456 gears & Greg Ducato's (Pheonix Transmission) tranny rebill it is a nice little street rod for a 5000 lb. whale. GIG'emSSR
There is plenty of aftermarket documentaiton on the effectivenss of a 2002 (NOT a 2001!) Corvette Z06 cam plus matching Z06 beehive factory valve springs.
When I changed our my stock 04 cam to that 02 Z06 cam, and also went to dual exhaust, the combination added approximately 80 rwhp. Got my 04 SSR (before supercharging) to 331 rwhp. No emissions and no driveability problems. That's about as good as it gets.
If you want to learn more about how both LM4 (03/04 SSRs) and LS2s (05/06 SSRs) respond to different parts swaps, read Will Handzell's book. Sorry I don't have the title of the book in front of me, but almost every Barnes & Nobles has one in their automotive section. Handzell has a dyno printout in the book specfically for an LM4 that has had only the cam swap (no exhaust enhacnements) and the cam alone gives close to 40 hp on an engine dyno or about 32 hp at the rear wheels. The dual exhaust system uncorks the rest of the potential. Handzell used to run the GM Performance Division, so I suspect he knows what he is talking about.
olaferickson: Your point of peak torque only moved up maybe 300 rpm with the much wilder cam duration than stock, and your engine is running out of air at 6000 rpm despite a cam engineered for 6500 or more. That tells me you have another cork in the system, and my guess is exhaust. I suspect that if you get a true dual exhaust on there (see earlier posts using "true dual exhaust" or "Dual Shotgun exhaust" as the search key), you might be surprised just how much power you pick up.
Jim G
The only thing you missed is that the before was done with 3.73 gears and the after was 4.56 gears. I'll guess that the gears pulled 20hp/20tq out of the "dyno" #'s from what I've seen in the past.The Cam is not engineered for 6500rpm.It is made for a peak of 6200rpm which it fell flat but the midrange was brought up.At that point I was showing a restriction in the intake itself.The Y-pipe would be fine if it merged into a 3.5" pipe and was a straighter design.
Also,never go by engine dyno's,look for real world RWHP results.A 40hp gain on an engine dyno could only give 20-25rwhp on a chassis dyno.
The only thing you missed is that the before was done with 3.73 gears and the after was 4.56 gears. I'll guess that the gears pulled 20hp/20tq out of the "dyno" #'s from what I've seen in the past.The Cam is not engineered for 6500rpm.It is made for a peak of 6200rpm which it fell flat but the midrange was brought up.At that point I was showing a restriction in the intake itself.The Y-pipe would be fine if it merged into a 3.5" pipe and was a straighter design.
Also,never go by engine dyno's,look for real world RWHP results.A 40hp gain on an engine dyno could only give 20-25rwhp on a chassis dyno.
Real world driving which I care a lot more about than numbers tell me that this thing kicks serious ass. Thanks again Don for all your help.
There is plenty of aftermarket documentaiton on the effectivenss of a 2002 (NOT a 2001!) Corvette Z06 cam plus matching Z06 beehive factory valve springs.
When I changed our my stock 04 cam to that 02 Z06 cam, and also went to dual exhaust, the combination added approximately 80 rwhp. Got my 04 SSR (before supercharging) to 331 rwhp. No emissions and no driveability problems. That's about as good as it gets.
If you want to learn more about how both LM4 (03/04 SSRs) and LS2s (05/06 SSRs) respond to different parts swaps, read Will Handzell's book. Sorry I don't have the title of the book in front of me, but almost every Barnes & Nobles has one in their automotive section. Handzell has a dyno printout in the book specfically for an LM4 that has had only the cam swap (no exhaust enhacnements) and the cam alone gives close to 40 hp on an engine dyno or about 32 hp at the rear wheels. The dual exhaust system uncorks the rest of the potential. Handzell used to run the GM Performance Division, so I suspect he knows what he is talking about.
olaferickson: Your point of peak torque only moved up maybe 300 rpm with the much wilder cam duration than stock, and your engine is running out of air at 6000 rpm despite a cam engineered for 6500 or more. That tells me you have another cork in the system, and my guess is exhaust. I suspect that if you get a true dual exhaust on there (see earlier posts using "true dual exhaust" or "Dual Shotgun exhaust" as the search key), you might be surprised just how much power you pick up.
Jim G
Great point Jim , I have it in my notes for future upgrades
Slowhawk: I DID allow for the difference between engine dyno and chassis dyno. On a manual, that usually runs 12 to 13%, and on an automatic 20 to 24%. BUT, I agree that some folks do "cheat" on a chassis dyno by running an electric water pump, using total loss cooling via external water source, exhaust systems that would NEVER be either street legal or even FIT inside a vehicle, etc.
In the case of the Z06 cam I discussed above, Hansell showed 40 hp on a chassis dyno, and so I factored that down to 32 to 33. I ahd already measured the effect of my dual exhaust before adding the cam, and knew it had added an AVERAGE of 30 ft. lb of torque in the mid range, a peak gain of 40 ft lb, but saw also that the stock LM4 cam (with duration of maybe 190 and lift barely above 0.500) choked the engine regarddless of the exhaust above about 5200 rpm. I figured if Hansell got say 32 rwhp net out of that Z06 cam, I should get a bit more, since he had NOT added a good exhaust. So I was predicting maybe 40 to 45 rwhp more after the cam swap. But, the cam and the exhaust happened to really click together, moving the torque peak on the engine from 4200 rpm to over 5000 rpm, and so I picked up over 60 more hp or so! Sometime, you just get lucky. That particular combination of cam and exhaust made my naturally aspirated 5.3 liter slight more volumetrically efficient than the vaunted 5.6 liter 02 Z06 engine.
The intake system of the LS2, taken MOSTLY from the Corvette, is pretty good. If you detected excessive intake losses on olaferickson's SSR, I would look to at least the following potential causes:
- Dirty air filter
- Oil-type air filter that has been overoiled
- Air filter that has been subjected to water ingestion (storm or car wash)
or
- Change his SSR type 90mm throttle body to a Corvette 90mm throttle body. 2005SSR6speed has proven this has appreciable impact on the 05/06 SSRs, but you DO need to check to ensure that the throttle blade is being FULLY, or at least near fully, opened, as the throttle activation voltages on the SSR are slightly different than on the Corvette.(Isn't GM wonderful when they stubbornly refuse to standardize what should clearly be standardized?)
I was glad to hear you mention the effect of gearing on a dyno.
I have known for some time that an inertia dyno gives deflated numbers after a gearing change to a numerically higher ratio. I have seen this with BOTH cars and motorcycles. A small part of it is due to sightly lower mechanical efficiency with steeper gears, but a big part is the fact that the steeper gearing allows the car to run through its rpm range much more quickly on an inertia type dyno. THat means that it has to rotationally accelerate all the drivetrain components up much more quickly than it did with the "old" gearing. i.e.it has to overcome the inertia of ALL the rotating parts in the drivetrain that much more quickly. That takes extra horsepower. The amounts of extra power required are surprisingly large.
But, I have never been able to find the actual dyno data for a car before and after only a gearing change, so have been unable to quantify it. The only things I have been able to do is dyno my own car all the way through the first 3 gears, and that DID show lower horsepower in 1st than in 2nd than in 3rd.
Do you have before and after data with the only variable being the gearing change? I'd really like to be able to put together a reliable formula that people can use!
When I'm at the shop I'll print out before/after gear swap data.We've done a ton of cars and I've done very extensive testing on my own cars. My 01 TA had 140 dyno pulls testing a ton of product's and my Vette had 80 or so passes.
I missed the 5.3 part of the Cam,exhause setup.I would agree that the Z06 Cam could make that power.My truck with the 5.3 gained 40hp/35tq to the wheels in a 2nd gear pull with a similar Cam.
As for Olafs intake.It is a knockoff of a truck intake,not even close to a Corvette intake.His TB was ported by myself and really opened up to almost it's max.The air filter,MA assembly was very free flowing.So it point's to me that the truck style intake isn't helping. If this was my vehicle I would find a way to get a FAST 90mm setup on there.Then if the gain was decent I would stage 2 port it.( done in house)
Also the idea of going full true dual with 3" the whole way is a good idea.Next time I see Olaf's truck I'm going to look at it to see if it can be done neatly.
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Dyno results after cam and headers.
I told all of them about the build and they where all very impressed. I think it brought them back to the days of p-51 mustangs and what not. I think I made there day and they made mine.
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