Well, horrible day today and to make a long story short, my '05 motor bit the dust today. I haven't been able to asses the damage but there's internal engine parts on the ground and a nice puddle of oil under the motor. I'm getting it towed here to my house tomorrow morning (engine failure happened in my parking garage at work) and will see what all is damaged but at the very least it's going to need a new shortblock.
So....what exactly do we have in our SSR's? We call it an LS2 but I know the block is iron and the intake looks different than a vette intake. Is that it, or is it much deeper than that? Can I literally find a used vette LS2, LS3, LS7, throw on my accessory brackets and be back in business?
My current, dead, motor wasn't stock so I'd like to at the least build back up what I had if not more. The lower end and heads were stock but it has a hot little cam in it, Kooks headers, and tuned. I can get cam specs but unless the cam is still good that's a bit of a moot point at this stage. It was probably pushing around 500 hp to the crank.
I don't have a large budget for this and will be doing the work (except for any machining and computer tuning) myself. So don't reply with some bada$$ $10k-$20k motor please.
Do these motors come out the bottom like on vettes or do you pull them out the top? I've got an engine hoist, stand, etc but don't have a lift. I was actually in the middle of rebuilding the 427 in my '69 vette but that'll go on hold for now. This truck is my daily driver so I need to figure out something very soon.
If there are some threads or links that answer all these questions please post those if easier. I couldn't find anything here....yet.
My SSR: "Kate" a Haughty Redhead, '06 Redline FPR 6 spd. #23333 Build Date 2/16/06
Jeez Travis, as I was reading through this it dawned on me who you are and which one you bought just a short time ago.
I also remember giving you encouragement to buy it. It is still a drop dead gorgeous SSR though.
I have absolutely no knowledge regarding your questions unfortunately.
Someone just posted pictures of an SSR engine bay with an LS7.
I will post it here (not to be a smarta$$) but maybe looking at the salvage yards might be an idea for a used one from a wreck.
The LS7 seems to be everyone's dream so this would be the time if the dollars aren't too much different, expecially considering you wish to build up the LS2 again.
Good luck and very sorry for your misfortune.
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"Such are the Vagaries of Life"
Ah, I'm Just Truckin' With Ya!
Yes, I'm the one that bought this SSR from a member here this Christmas. I get compliments on the truck almost daily. I had been wanting to put some electric cutouts on the sidepipes and make them operational again. Quite a change in plans now!
My SSR: "Kate" a Haughty Redhead, '06 Redline FPR 6 spd. #23333 Build Date 2/16/06
Quote:
Originally Posted by tshort
Yes, I'm the one that bought this SSR from a member here this Christmas. I get compliments on the truck almost daily. I had been wanting to put some electric cutouts on the sidepipes and make them operational again. Quite a change in plans now!
If I had this to deal with, a person I would go to for advice is Topspin. I am sure there are a ton of others but pretty sure he would be able to answer all your removal and compatibility questions.
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"Such are the Vagaries of Life"
Ah, I'm Just Truckin' With Ya!
The LS2 is all aluminum block and heads. Crate replacements around $6K. The intake is specific to the SSR for torque and sound. Oil pan may be specific due to the Trailblazer crossmember?
My SSR: 2005 Sinister 6-speed, 2004 UV with flamous flames
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maui Mike
The LS2 is all aluminum block and heads. Crate replacements around $6K. The intake is specific to the SSR for torque and sound. Oil pan may be specific due to the Trailblazer crossmember?
Out the top.
The oil pan is specific to the SSR, the intake is specific but you don't have to stick with it. The only thing you need to know is if you are an early 2005 or late 2005 - the crank and cam sensors (and MAP??) are 12v early and 6v late. But if you carry over your sensors and oil pan to the replacement motor it won't be a big deal.
The LS1/LS6/LS2/LS3s are virtually the same motor, and you should be able to bolt on your high performance goodies. The LS7 is a dry sump and would have to be converted to a wet sump - there are kits out there but it would get costly. If I can help call me - 813-625-4457.
My SSR: #23198 06 Blue 3SS #375 of 532 - Birthday 12/21/05 - Took delivery 9/5/06 (2nd owner)
hat puddle of oil sounds like maybe you will need the new pan as well. If soo I would suggest you post that need here as several members are replacing theirs with the Corvette pan after changing to the new cross member developed by Mike in AZ and Joe (2005SSR6Speed) Good luck in fixing your truck and I am really sorry to hear this happened. If you figure out what the problem was that caused this please let us all know.
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Use the SSR Parts Exchange It works for us all BlueStreak - One of the Blues Brothers
My SSR: 05 6 sp. with 4.56 gears, ZR1 clutch, Edelbrock intake, Lunati cam, Crane rockers, C6 modified pan
The easiest replacement would be an early LS2 from a wrecked SSR or Vette. They are Gen 4 engines with the important parts being the 24X reluctor wheel, the front cam position sensor, and external knock sensors. Unless you're really on a budget, I would discount the Gen 3 engines, as they are going to offer lower performance than the LS2. If you end up going Gen 3, you'll have to deal with the cam position sensor and use the Gen 4 knock sensors. As far as the LS7 that frequently gets mentioned, they're very pricey and need a lot of changes to go in the R. The heads require a very specific intake and the fabricated one shown on an SSR is probably about $2500. Besides you can easily surpass the 505 hp for way less money. The later Gen 4s, like the LS 3 that's been mentioned, have a 58x reluctor wheel and would need a new L92 style intake to match the intake ports. I don't think our ECM can be retuned to recognize the 58x wheel. There are many reasonably priced shortblocks now available, with 4" stroker cranks, that would give you over 400 cu. in. Even if your oil pan is damaged, being of aluminum construction, it's very easy to repair. It's a 4 wheel dr. Trailblazer pan and you can cut out the center tube and increase the capacity, which is of great benefit to the engine as capacity is insufficient in most of the factory pans. The latest LS7s and LS9 Vettes have gone up to 10.5 quarts to avoid starvation. I've been able to get my modified stock pan up to 8.5 quarts. Good Luck!
I got it home tonight and have started pulling apart all the wiring harness and accessories. Now that I can finally see the block, there is a large hole in the block on the driver side directly below the motor mount. It took out a good piece of the pan too so I don't think the pan is salvagable. I kinda wanted to convert to the rear sump vette pan anyhow. I can see right through the block and all the way up to the cam. There's no sign of a connecting rod or piston although w/out pulling the motor out it's hard to see much.
So I'm definitely going to need a new shortblock. I'll look for a stock LS2 or stroked LS2 shortblock. If I find a stroked one, will I be able to put it together and get it running enough to make it to a shop to do a tune?
Also, is the iron block that much heavier? I've seen iron blocked stroked shortblocks on the internet for sale a little cheaper than the aluminum blocks and they are stronger. I'm a little worried though cause the truck is already lowered and if the iron block is that much heavier the front might be too low.
Thanks for all the replies. I'll start a new thread once I get into it more and start on the rebuild/reinstall.
My SSR: 2005 Redline Red 6sp (named:Stuart Little)
Pace Performance has the 6.0 with the 24x crank reluctor for $4794.00, I don't think your worried about getting a core charge back for a holey block. Sorry about the bad news.
Yes, the newer versions of the LS engine do use a 58x reluctor wheel on the crankshaft. And most (if not all) of the SSR ECM's are set up for the 24x reluctor. BUT there is a fairly easy solution for this issue if you're building or buying a short block. You see, ALL of the LS engines (except the LS7) use the same 3.62" stroke crankshaft. The differences in displacement are all done with bore size only. The only difference in the crankshafts are the reluctor wheel itself. Just make sure to use the crank with the correct reluctor to match your ECM and you'll be OK. The real upside is that because all LS engines (except the LS7) use either a 24x or 58x version of the same crank, either crank is commonly available for a fairly reasonable cost. And then of course there are a number of stroker cranks available as well.
Here is my recommendation. I would look for a good used LS3. It has the largest bore size in the LS family (except the LS7) and then put a 24x stock crank in it. Keep all the sensors from your LS2 and it will bolt right in. The only other issue is the intake manifold. Here again the GM Parts Bin (the wrecking yard) provides a solution. The L92 intake used on the 6.2L Denali and Escalade is a truck-style intake that works with the square-port LS3 heads. Other than the port configuration it is virtually identical to the LS2 truck intake you have now. It will accept all the sensors, injectors and even the throttle body from your LS2. I think even the threaded holes are there to mount the factory engine cover if you want to. Best of all it will look like just another LS2 SSR when you open the hood. BUT you'll have the extra displacement AND the better-flowing square port heads as a base for future improvements and of course, about 30 extra hp as well. All for about the cost of replacing the LS2. While I was doing it I'd add a set of forged pistons too, but maybe that's just me......
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2005 Slingshot Yellow 1SB No 16549 - 12.59 et @ 107.35
2000 Silverado 5.3 Step-Side PU - Daily Driver
1957 Chevy BelAir Street Rod - 10.65 et
My SSR: 05 6 sp. with 4.56 gears, ZR1 clutch, Edelbrock intake, Lunati cam, Crane rockers, C6 modified pan
A little more concerning the reluctor wheels. They do simply press on to the rear of the crank. Goodson Tools makes an indexing and installation tool to replace the ring if one gets damaged. A quality machine shop should be able to provide this service also. I'd think you could swap the 24x and 58x if you need to. Also, to identify what reluctor is in an engine, the crank position sensors are color coded. A black plug signifies a 24x and gray means it's an 58x.
Last edited by Topspin; 07-21-2010 at 08:19 PM.
Reason: sp.
Thanks for all your replies. I still haven't had a chance to pull the motor out yet so I'm in a bit of a stalling pattern now but I'll let you guys know what I find and decide to do.
The SSRs cooling characteristics will make the LS7 a little problematical even if you address the oiling issues. As cool as it would be, a Z06 SSR might be a difficult build.
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Don't think, Meat - throw the ball!
OK, no more with the LS7. It's definitely way more work to do than I want. Now, I may go with a stroked shortblock and I might go as far as a 427 but now I need to figure out what else would be needed to make that happen. Larger 60 lb injectors? Better cooling? etc.
OK, no more with the LS7. It's definitely way more work to do than I want. Now, I may go with a stroked shortblock and I might go as far as a 427 but now I need to figure out what else would be needed to make that happen. Larger 60 lb injectors? Better cooling? etc.
Go to leading edge performance web site and look at the short and long blocks that Garth has ,It should give you some ideas and a phone call to him or Joe Delano will get you information that you will need for your new block
A little update...
Getting the engine out was a PAIN!!! I pulled just the motor and left the tranny in and it took forever to get the 2 separated. And you're so limited on the distance you can lift the block because of the way the firewall juts out over the engine.
Anywho, it appears that the original failure was the valve-spring. These were Comp springs that were installed to handle the extra lift of the Comp cam. I never was a big fan of the beehive springs and now definitely am not. At least with a traditional dual spring you have a chance to catch a problem like this before you end up with a motor like mine.
I'll attach some pics when I get a chance but this is the carnage: spring broke, rocker arm bearings broke, valve bent and broke (the valve head is now imbedded in the cylinder head), head is cracked at the valve guide, head has valve 'stuck' in the bowl, piston is broken in many pieces, connecting rod broken in 3 pieces, hole in block, hole in pan, pan valley tray has a hole or two. It doesn't appear the crank is damaged although a magnaflux will tell the final story.
I've bought an LS2 out of a GTO that has 5k miles on it with Cartek ported heads, and their cam. I still don't have the new longblock yet though...waiting on the guy to remove it from his GTO.
Sadly, once it's all back together the SSR will go up for sale. This is more a timing thing than having anything to do with the engine failure. i.e. nagging wife, 2 kids, and a new job that requires me to take clients around from time to time.
Whoever ends up with this truck when I'm done with it is going to have a heck of a bada$$ SSR! Many of the parts I was upgrading with when this all started have already been ordered so no 'fix it cheap to sell' at this point. New LS7 clutch, C6 oil pan and new crossmember, custom twin 8" subs in the box behind the seats, etc etc. Not to mention the custom paint, sidepipes....I'm really gonna miss this truck.
Tshort: I haven't read all the details within this post, but noted that you are in Texas, and in metro Dallas. That means emissions testing. Some of what has been discussed in the thread would clhallenge your ability to successfuyl get through an emission check, and that is required every year or two as I recall.
No worries, another LS2 with 5K miles is going in it. It has some nice head work and a cam but other than that all stock stuff for the most part. Just waiting on the motor.
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It is still a drop dead gorgeous SSR though.
The oil pan is specific to the SSR, the intake is specific but you don't have to stick with it. The only thing you need to know is if you are an early 2005 or late 2005 - the crank and cam sensors (and MAP??) are 12v early and 6v late. But if you carry over your sensors and oil pan to the replacement motor it won't be a big deal. 
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