Fabricated Crossmember

[Topspin]

A previous thread on crossmembers has documented the benefits of adding a second bar or the Envoy stamped piece. Believing in the old hotrodders theory of, if a little is good - too much is just right, I made up my version of a chassis brace. There is a hole in each frame rail about a foot forward of the stock crossmember holes, that I used for new mounting points for the expanded brace. The holes are a good fit for 3/8" or 10mm rivnuts, so the install was easy. As most have agreed, this mod does eliminate body noise and enhance road feel. It made quite an improvement in the bump-steer issue I've been unhappy with. I believe a shock tower brace would be a good addition also, but I think it would be significantly more difficult to fit in. I'll look at that over the winter. The materials used in the brace were 1.25" x .065 wall moly tube cross tubes and 1" x .060 wall x tubes. The brace is 1/2" lower than the stock bars but is not the lowest point on the chassis. The front factory x brace is 3/4" lower. Picture #1 shows the factory frame hole I used. #2 compares the mild steel .060 wall bar. # 3 the new brace installed with stainless hardware.http://www.ssrfanatic.com/forum/atta...1&d=1228536111

[CQQL_SSR]

It looks real solid. You did a great job designing the brace.
I have a few questions though.

The stock brace and the Envoy brace fit in an indent on the bottom of the gas tank.
Does your brace contact the gas tank at all or did you leave some room when you fabricated it?

Are you going to fabricate more and sell them?

How heavy is it? Not that it will make that much difference on a 4,700 lb SSR.

Charlie

[Topspin]

Charlie, Thanks for the positive feedback. Yes, there is gas tank clearance. That was the reason I went down to 1" dia. tubing for the x tubes. The 1.25" end tubes fit in the indents in the tank. Actually, my stock bar contacted the tank. Turns out the stock bar is soft enough that when they stamp the part# into it, it bends. The brace is 14# versus about 7# for 2 stock bars together. I don't know what the Envoy brace weighs, but I think someone has posted that info. About making more, that's a possibility though I do have concerns. My R is now put away for the winter and I only have 100 miles on the new brace. I would want to put significantly more miles on it, then pull it back off and magnaflux all the welds to make sure it wasn't degrading. I also have worries about the consistency of the bolt hole location from frame to frame. If you notice the factory has slotted one end of the factory bar, to allow for variances. I noticed about a 1/4" difference in hole location from side to side. Is this consistent throughout the different years on the R? I don't know. Accurate bolt hole location adds rigidity to the package. Then lastly the issue of personal liability comes to mind. Although I can't imagine a finer group of people than I see on this site, that always could crop up in an accident of some sort. That might concern you also if you get into making the nerfbars.

[Greg Ducato]

nice job, I'm sure that will do wonders for any frame flex you may have had.

[Topspin]

Thanks for the kind words, Greg. All the help you provide for the members is a blessing!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Topspin

The brace is 14# versus about 7# for 2 stock bars together. I don't know what the Envoy brace weighs, but I think someone has posted that info.

14.5 lbs with the 4 bolts.

Then lastly the issue of personal liability comes to mind.

That's a major concern, especially if you're doing it as an individual rather than a business with liability insurance. No good deed goes unpunished, people get sued by friends and family every day.

[Topspin]

Wow, I'm surprised the monstrosity I made weighs the same as that Envoy brace. I'm guessing that maybe you have an Envoy brace on yours? If so, do you remember if the bolt holes in it were elongated or overly large for the bolts? Just wondering about the uniformity of the frame rails after seeing the slotted cross bar that I pulled off mine.

[CQQL_SSR]

Ken, the bolt holes on the Envoy crossmember are elongated.

[Topspin]

Many Thanks, Charlie! That's kind of what I suspected.

["BLACKIE"]

SWEEET!!!!...... Topspin

I'm taking a time out from installing my carpet kit I do not know about the rest of the members But ...... I WANT ONE!!! when can I expect delivery? What...... Your watching a football game GREAT!!! Now theres NASCAR on the tube I guess you won't get started on it today ? Let me know when it's done

As always Topspin

BLACKIE

[Topspin]

Hey Blackster, take a close look at the 3rd picture and you can see quite clearly the muffler and attached pipe. Look like what you need? Take Care - Ken

["BLACKIE"]

Yep Topspin ..... That's what the "BLACKSTER" is after

Ya know Ken, I understand about chassis flex and so on..... I have noticed with the top down on some of the high speed on/off ramps that I've gone on a daliy basis, that my rig gives me a uneasy feeling. But....I can take the same ramp the next day with the top up and it feels a lot better (tighter) from what I have read around this forum is true.

As big and strong as the chassis that was made by GM, there are no mid-chassis X members installed, i.e. underneath the seating/roof retracted area. As far as adding another tube next to the one that is there. I won't waste my time, I like your idea/approach/finished product to take care of propblem

As always Topspin

BLACKSTER

Ya know "SMITTY" I like the name the "BLACKSTER" Thanks!!!!

[abadssr]

the installation of the second tube worked great for me and for the price one that couldn't be beat. but if someone is making a better one

[MnMsToy]

I still can't see the pictures.

[MnMsToy]

Originally Posted by abadssr

the installation of the second tube worked great for me and for the price one that couldn't be beat. but if someone is making a better one

I agree. I have the second tube and it makes a improvement, mostly when the top is down.. Its easy to understand why topspins its better.

[Topspin]

Bump for Richard. Thanks for the very cool PM, with a great story - I'll reply when I get a minute.

[YellowDZH]

Good job Topspin.

[Jgrden]

WOW that cross member ought to do the job.

[Topspin]

Thanks guys, I had it off this past winter and looked it over - it seems to be hanging together fine after 3 yrs. of use.

[MnMsToy]

Originally Posted by Topspin

Thanks guys, I had it off this past winter and looked it over - it seems to be hanging together fine after 3 yrs. of use.

Topspin, by any chance did you try the Envoy stamped crossmember before you built your custom support? If so how would you descripe the difference between the two. Or perhaps you have driving another R that had the Envoy crossmember?

My guess is yours is much better than the Envoy.

[JOHN317]

Nice job Ken. Anything that adds stability to the frame is a step in the right direction. I buy one.

[Topspin]

M&M, my 05 had the single bar stock and that's all I have to compare to. The difference was quite noticeable to me. I'm sure any addition under there helps to varying degrees. What the car could really use is a 6 point roll bar, but fitting it in would be a total nightmare and end up quite unsightly.

Thanks Art, if I ever get some time to build a few I'll let you know.

[twooldfarmers]

After seeing Kens post last spring I decided this was something I needed to put on the 'to do' list for the fall.

Done.

I jig welded it right on the truck so that my bolts would have zero free play for a real firm grip on the frame.

I used what I had on the rack out back which was 3/4 x 1 1/2 rectangular tubing. It is true that I was tack welding right beside the fuel tank but it was full so an explosion was rather unlikely in my mind. Be cautious and have a fire extinguisher at your side at all times. Partially filled fuel tanks are the dangerous ones.

While I was in the business of thieving patents I also stole Ken's idea on the master cut off switch as it is going to be much easier than disconnecting and reconnecting the battery on the occasions that the 'no crank/no start' Gremlin shows up as it did on three occasions this past summer.

Ken is also giving some thought to a shock tower brace, I wish I had a TIG welder so I could do one up in aluminum if someone comes up with a design I could rifle.

It will be a tough fit and definitely need to be a three piece unit. It will also have to be of very stout material as is needs to have a considerable amount of rise from the level of the shock towers to it to clear the engine. I think that will automatically give it an area in which to flex substantially.

Perhaps we all need to scratch our heads and work on this idea some. My guess is that this aforementioned required 'rise' is why no one has attempted to produce these units commercially. It could well be that it just could not be built in a manner that would provide significant gains to be worth the price of R & D, build costs and margin.

The brace would also have to wind its way around the coolant recovery system and the central fuse/relay box and moving those is out of the question I would think. It would be a very tight configuration.

Any of you DIY fabricators out there have any thoughts on this?

[Topspin]

2OF (formerly Richard or twooldfarmers), that's a real nice part you made!! It's too pretty to be on the bottom side - even looks like you waxed it! Did you happen to weigh it by any chance. What are your feelings on the ride quality change, if any?

Man, you're comments on the shock tower brace align with my observations exactly. Every time I've opened the hood , with the intent of getting serious about it, I walk from side to side a few times, think about what's really involved here, gently close the hood while quickly thinking of another task that simply must get done right now. Mike was smart in engineering the under car plate, and it receives great reviews, so that might be the best and only way to go.

[REBEL]

Must it go from tower to tower or can it 45 to firewall?

[Topspin]

Ed, my feeling is the best brace would be a K member. As straight across as possible, with 45s going to the firewall. Really, really tough in our engine bay, without relocating some things.

[REBEL]

Talking out loud …and will make you laugh.

Weld bar to hood (recessed) with tube ends that point down 4” with tapered holes

Extend tower rod up to hood with taper pin.

Close hood mate pins to taper holes.

And if needed even run pin thru hood and hood pin to tie all together.

[Topspin]

Ed, to your credit, you're always thinking!! Kind of reminds me of, I think it was Risky Business, where Micheal Keaton was the "idea guy" - real funny movie! I may have to spend some additional time visualizing your plan, but we can certainly try it out on your ride, if you're game?!

[twooldfarmers]

I should have taken the time to weight the finished piece but my estimate is that is was about 20 pounds.

I will not likely get any road time with it as it is going into winter storage this week. I am just scrambling to get things done this fall as once it comes out in the spring I just wanna' drive it.

Originally Posted by Topspin

2OF (formerly Richard or twooldfarmers), that's a real nice part you made!! It's too pretty to be on the bottom side - even looks like you waxed it! Did you happen to weigh it by any chance. What are your feelings on the ride quality change, if any?

Man, you're comments on the shock tower brace align with my observations exactly. Every time I've opened the hood , with the intent of getting serious about it, I walk from side to side a few times, think about what's really involved here, gently close the hood while quickly thinking of another task that simply must get done right now. Mike was smart in engineering the under car plate, and it receives great reviews, so that might be the best and only way to go.

[REBEL]

I'm doing new hood this winter anyway (peek-a-boo)
I will do a play dough squish to see how thick a bar can cross.