I will attempt to provide photo documentation of my 2004 SSR Twin Turbo build. I hope to share and show every detail so you can do a build like this. This also documents the problems I ran into and the solutions we tried. It's all here, the good the bad and the ugly.
BEFORE (July 1, 2015)
My 5 year old wants more then just one horse to ride! :glol
AFTER (Progress Photo as of 10-23-2015, Almost done!)
Check out the build process on the following pages.
We are hopeful that this documentation process will get you inspired to go out and turbo a vehicle, any vehicle. The options on how to install a turbo are endless so it comes down to what you like, how much you want to spend and how much power you want to build.
Making room was the hard part. In order to put the second turbo under the hood on the driver side we needed to move the ECU and the Fuse box from under the hood to inside the drivers fender behind the plastic wheel well. Once these components were moved only about 58 wires needed to be extended. I expected hundreds when we started the build.
Photo documentation was done using an Android app called FieldPhotos - that we developed for our cleanup business. This app uploads photos as they are taken and sends them directly to Google Drive and moments later they sync directly to our PC/Mac.
We are about as far as we can go with the wiring for now. As you can see we also deleted the factory vacuum booster and replace it with a hydro-booster for the brake system. It frees up more room so we can snake the 3" downpipe down and under the SSR. The hydro booster will give us better brakes when walking the SSR into the staging lights at the track. You do this to build max boost before applying the transbrake and then bump into second stage light.
Here are some of the intake and intercooler photos.
In this photo the you can see the Holley Mid-Rise intake along with the 417 Motorsports intercooler was to tall. (Edit 6-13-2017: If I did it again I would not use the 417 Motorsports intercooler. At this power level it helps but just barley. Even when we used 40 pounds of ice between rounds we had over 200 degree intake temperatures. Search for reviews before you buy.)
Notice the clearance issue in the back firewall area. I had to use a bottle jack and hammer to create the clearance for the intake top cover/plenum to slide back. At least we still have windshield wipers that will work after firewall mods were made. If you did not use the water to air intercooler no firewall modification is needed with the Holley Mid-Ram. For those of you wanting to add the Holley High-Ram for your naturally aspirated application I think it would fit with the same modification we made to the firewall.
We had to cut the Holly top cover to allow clearance for the firewall. We will fabricate and tig in some aluminum plate to fill the hole.
It may compromise some air flow but what else are we going to do.
This is what we ended up with and to my disappointment we needed to ditch the stock hood as it will not close.
So I ordered one of Eric's http://www.mpd1.com/content/ssr_stylehood_big.html L88 Hoods so we can solve that problem with his assistance.
Here you can see we have room for the stock front accessory drive. High mount alternator and stock steering pump.
We will mount the turbo on the drivers side behind the alternator and over the valve cover. At least that is the plan for now. Edit: We ditched the stock high mount alternator and bracket and we went with a Low mount manual belt adjuster. We went with a 2010 Camaro power steering pump with a modified ATI ProCharger PS pump relocation brackets and spacers.
This is what we ended up with and to my disappointment we needed to ditch the stock hood as it will not close. So I ordered one of Eric's MPD Motorsports L88 Hoods so we can solve that problem with his assistance.
I think I have more time then sense. I was told you can't fit a turbo under the hood, just put a blower on it and call it a day. So my buddy Jason Ayers said you went from it can't be done to lets do twin turbos under the hood. Well it's not done yet but maybe someday. It just takes time. You put it together and take it apart and try this and try that. LOL
Here we cut the Holley Mid-Rise intake top cover to clear the firewall.
Dale Borden and I fit in some 1/4" 6061-T651 plate to plug the clearance hole I made.
Jason Ayers (Owner of the Murder Nova Killer) is doing the welding.
Let the cover cool down completely before we removed the bolts. It did not warp and should hold 30 PSI of boost if needed.
More than likely the cover will never see 20 PSI.
We installed the evap valve in the map sensor port. It turned out that if you install a M10 time-cert in the adjacent 1/8 pipe port it fastens perfectly.
I like the location because that ugly valve is hidden in back facing the firewall. We got lucky on this one.
All done but the polishing that will take place before final assembly.
This is all I got done today. So I will post a couple more pictures as we get going.
(10-14-2015) In the end we bent the heater core tubes 3 degrees towards the passenger fender and went with a couple of Dorman 90 degree quick connect heater couplers with 5/8" Vibrant silicone heater hose.
Guys I have a problem that maybe you can offer a suggestion. I need to find a way to put a 90 Degree fitting or hose on the small heater hose connection.
See how tight it is to the back of the 417 Motorsports intercooler. Also I need to screw in -12AN fitting to feed water to the intercooler.
I plan on using a straight hose barb for the 3/4" heater hose and it is going to get a little tight in this area.
Do you think I should just cut it back and slide a molded 90 hose on it? I would clamp it on the backside of the ring on the tube.
Maybe I should cut it off and put on a compression fitting.
Maybe someone makes a 90 degree quick disconnect.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks, Jerry
(We ditched this idea and went with Dorman 90's Guys I ended up using the a SharkBite.com 1/2 x 1/2 FNPT push to connect fitting to allow me to install a 90 right at the heater core outlet. I pulled out the white hose support inside the fitting with a needle nose pliers and the measured ID for this fitting matched up nicely with the OD of the tube. Now I can cut the heater core tubing to the exact length I need to clear the intercooler. This heater outlet connection will feed water in series to both center sections of the turbo chargers. After I polish it up it should look pretty snappy. Thanks Jerry
Edit 3-27-2016: This ended up being a waste of time and money. after two attempts to keep head gaskets from pushing water I scrapped the block, sleeves, 1/2 head studs and pistons and went with an LSX Block. I would not recommend the Darton MID Sleeves for power adders of any kind. The engine builder did what he could but ultimately the sleeves are way over sold as a superior product to other aftermarket blocks. Darton International makes the products but don't waste your money just buy new block from GM or Dart or RHS.
Engine is starting out as LS 5.7 we picked up at a junk yard. We are getting ready to put in the CNC to cut out old sleeves and make room for the Darton MID sleeves. They final bore will be 4.125.
Darton MID Sleeves
Callies 4.00 Forged crankshaft with 24 reluctor getting balanced.
Boost rated forged pistons. Edit: On the third engine built I calculated the compression ratio and with these Diamond pistons we are at 8.635 to 1. So we put them aside and went with a new set of Wiseco boost pistons with a final compression ratio of 10.576 to 1.
We selected Insane Power to build the engine. They are in Henderson NV. We ordered the engine in Jan 2015 and it is almost completed. Very busy shop. EDIT: As of March 2016 still having engine issues so I decided to go a different direction.
Block is getting rough cut for the Darton MID Sleeves.
Edit 3-27-2016: this is why the block gets so weak after cutting all this material way to make room for the Darton MID sleeves. Just look at it. No support on the top deck. No wonder this engine could not hold a head gasket. Even with motor plates front and mid.
Now that's a pile of chips.
This is what it looks like after they slowly cut out the old sleeves.
Crankshaft on the balancer.
I want to do this mod for the oil pan. Ken (Topspin) has offered to send me the templates.
Thanks again Ken for sharing your knowledge and practical experience.
That's all we have for now. I will be at a beginners HP Tuners tuning school over at Zippy Performance so I won't be available until next week.
I can not even comprehend doing this. This is on par with sending a space craft to Mars. No, I would say it is more difficult. I am use to working with people who can not figure out why a single cylinder lawn mower will not start.
Sebastian, your to kind. At the end of the day its just bits and pieces and sometime a little duct-tape to bring it all together. I have my fingers crossed that the engine will start some where down the road. (Hopefully late August.) (Now it is looking like late October 2015. Work and kids are slowing me down.)
WOW!
Can't wait to see more pics.
What a build.... BEST After the re-bore what is the displacement going to be? And what kinda power are you expecting? I saw a twin tubo vette running around 1200HP. But I have no idea what else was done to the motor.
Again, congratulations.. love to hear that run and see it perform.
Thanks, Charles
The bore will be 4.125 with a 4.00 stroke so it works out to be 427 CI.
As far as power we could see as much as four digits.
Regarding your question on HP I will give you the long answer. On the dyno we will gradually turn the truck to max hp/tq and this will be the final tune. Then after that we will tune our wastegate controller to any power level the application makes under the max boost we tuned on the dyno. With turbo charged engine setups you typically use one wastegate per turbo to control the power. (basically the wastegate is a large exhaust leak that redirects exhaust energy to the atmosphere causing the turbocharge not to spin so fast.) In our setup we will have 5 PSI springs in each wastegate and this will limit the power to whatever the engine makes with 5 PSI of boost. On top of that we fitted the truck with an electronic boost controller and it use a standalone 5 bar MAP sensor and CO2 pressure to control the gate pressure. For example you can command 20 PSI of C02 gate pressure on top of the 5 pound mechanical springs and you may end up with 14 PSI of engine boost inside the intake manifold. Our setup will run a 3 bar map sensor and that will give us lots of tuning range, but less resolution for fine tuning.
As long as you have enough fuel pump volume and large enough fuel injectors and the turbos don't run out of air you can build more and more HP. By monitoring short term fuel trims and air fuel ratios you can adjust the VE table to give the engine what it needs to run smooth with spot on 14.7 AFR under lower kpa map for cruising and make safe, big power numbers with power enrichment and boost enrichment tuning tables adjusted correctly. The PCM that comes with these trucks are very powerful and with HP Tuners (and other software brands) you can tune the engine to run very efficient during all driving conditions. GM thought of everything and our tune will have the addition of a Flex fuel sensor so we can run on E85 (poor mans race gas) most of the time, but when we go out of town and can't find E85 we can run 91 or 93. The flex fuel tuning tables automatically adjust the fuel, spark, and power enrichment tables from 0 to 100% ethanol blends. Using the flex fuel sensor makes it so you don't need two tunes. One for E85 and a tune for 91. In the past I would load the tune I needed based on the fuel I could find and I felt that while it was my only option I always felt it was a poor solution because you always had a blended fuel for up to 2-3 tanks of gas.
What amounts to building a Funny Car then making it streetable, is a huge challenge. It sounds like you've got all the variables figured out, and are capable of handling any surprises. Thanks for sharing this incredible build. :liebe011:
Jerry, as I mentioned, I'm really digging this project!
I'm a little curious about your block selection. Did you at all consider the GM LSX block, or the Dart LS Next offering? They both are 6 head bolt blocks with stronger main webbing, steel main caps, and priority main oiling. I wouldn't think either would be much more costly than the sleeved LS1 block?
Interesting that you chose the Holley mid rise, as I installed one on my R over the winter. I had an Edelbrock Victor Jr on it previously, with one of their cast elbows. I'd think that might be a good choice for your combo, also. I'm sure the intercooler influenced your decision, somewhat. Concerning the modded Holley top, have you considered doing some internal work to it? It'd think some fitted 1/8" stock angled/rolled from the base of the 90 degree wall you've created, running out to the inlet would be very helpful in streamlining plenum flow.
Hi Topspin, thanks for your kind comments. It’s a fun project.
EDIT 3-27-2016: (Topspin was right about going with an aftermarket block for the reasons he mentioned above. I ended up scrapping the Darton MID Sleeved block do to multiple head gasket failures. I went with GM LSX block.)
I like all those aftermarket block from RHS, Dart, LSX and have you seen the new World LS offering. I chose the LS1 style because I always wanted the Darton MID sleeves and aluminum block for my SSR. I could not afford the Dart aluminum with the MID installed. So we cut up this old LS6 block and fitted it with pinned billet main caps from a junk yard LS7, cut and fitted the Darton MID wet sleeves, installed ½ inch head studs to hold the Cometic MID MLS head gaskets between the bare AFR 245 with Manley bits, we are also machining the block and crank to accept a Torrington thrust in an effort to save wear on the stock King bearing thrust. Experts tell me that this is helpful when spooling turbos with some transmissions. I guess spooling will push on the stock thrust bearing and the can wipe them out.
I would like to see pictures of your Holley setup. Did you post it anywhere?
I ended up with the Holley mid-rise because of the 417 intercooler. It was a last minute change because I learned about it after getting a Edelbrock Pro-Ram. So I ordered the Holley and it took 12 weeks to get. I wish I did not have to cut it up but we think the air is going to get straightened out some under boost going thru the innercooler core. This is another example of a compromise. No intercooler and spray lots of methanol or cut the intake top, so I cut the top. LOL
I will post photos of the engine work as I get them.
Very cool project cant wait to see the outcome. Two things I would mention, the back 2 cylinders tend to run warmer then the rest so I am worried about the trimming of the intake second is boost levels above 15psi on a standard block. Only speaking from experience I build 5-600 of these a year. If you need anything I am happy to help (cbmmotorsports.com)Bruce
Hey Bruce, you guys build some really cool engines. We will keep it tuned down for the most part and push it a little harder when we got some ice water in the innercooler circuit. I hope the AFR heads and 1/2 studs hold up to a few 25 PSI hits from time to time. Chances are it won't see much duty cycle.
I met some of your guys in Las Vegas at an event Rick Snavely drove at. What a nice bunch of guys.
Well Jerry, it sounds like you got down right intimate with that LS1 block!
Here's a couple of pics of my my semi - finished installation of the Holley Mid. I don't have the filter isolation tin work completed yet, but currently driving it anyway - there are limited good days in MI!
Head Studs, Rod to block Clearance, Holley Intake Mods
We went with 1/2" head studs for this build. With this and AFR245 3/4 thick deck we should hold some boost.
My engine builder shares photos every step of the way. This one confirms the 1/2" head studs were used as ordered. They buy these from ARP using the Dodge Viper head stud kit.
Block clearance is made so the 4" stroke will not rub the rod.
I have been working on the Holley Mid-rise intake to get all the sensors mounted. Here we show the 3 bar MAP sensor installed in the stock location provided by Holley. I ended up machining with my drill press another port for the evap solenoid to mount. That was a pain for me. But its done. We also added a couple 1/8 NPT ports for boost controller and fuel pressure regulator. I need to take it apart again and drill and tap two more for the the blow-off vale sensor lines. Way at the bottom you can see the Intake Air Temp sensor. I used the port that normally feeds the vacuum-brake booster. I'm using a hydro-booster so I did not need this port.
Got the fuel rails mounted so I can measure the height and diameter for specing out Injector Dynamics PN ID2000-60-14 fuel injectors. We are running E85 most of the time so we need to step up the fuel delivery volume. (I'm working on the Flex Fuel hardware and wiring to PCM. I will post this when completed but looks like it is doable.) Regarding injectors in this 2200cc size AUS Injectors PN A158821-2200 in Tempe, AZ sells the very same injector as the ID under the AUS name using the same injector data for $179 each vs $240 each. The injector are made by Bosch and private labeled.
Stock Truck Intake Compared to the Holley Mid-Rise with 417 Intercooler
I set the stock truck intake side by side with the Holley Mid-rise with the 417 Intercooler . The new combo weights a ton compared to the stock composite intake. But every thing you do to make power is a compromise.
Rear view. No wonder I had to beat the fire to make clearance. LOL
Front View. I sure hope my new hood from Eric clears all this. Oh well it it doesn't we will go to plan "B". Whatever that is!
Sorry but we had to make a few scars. We used a bottle jack and a hammer. Go figure. GM used some steel in this SSR.
Tonight we start fabrication on the drivers side turbo manifold. Now were talking! Thanks for looking. Jerry
The engine builder has a process where he pins the main using a steel dowel pin. I am told that it keeps the main bearing caps from moving around while abusing the engine.
Drilling the holes in the block to accept the pins.
Each main billet steel bearing cap are drilled. But not to deep.
Getting close. Just a little sanding and then fabricate the 1/8 aluminum plate that will be welded in. I guess we will gain about 2 quarts of oil capacity.
What mess I made cutting the oil drain holes.
This is the part number for the C6 oil pan.
I will finish it up another day.
So who came up with this oil pan modification I can't say for sure but Topspin took the time to post it "C6 Oil Pan Modifications" and this is just one example of all the ideas that are shared on this site that are so very helpful. Topspin was kind enough to even UPS the templates to making this oil pan modification. What a swell guy. How do you repay these guys. Well you can't, because they won't take a dime. I really appreciate all the guys and gals that give so freely of their time and offer so much practical advice to guys like me who just love these trucks.
View attachment 260185
Getting close. Just a little sanding and then fabricate the 1/8 aluminum plate that will be welded in. I guess we will gain about 2 quarts of oil capacity.
So who came up with this oil pan modification I can't say for sure but Topspin took the time to post it and this is just one example of all the ideas that are shared on this sight that are so very helpful. Topspin was kind enough to even UPS the templates to making this oil pan modification. What a swell guy. How do you repay these guys. Well you can't, because they won't take a dime. I really appreciate all the guys and gals that give so freely of there time and offer so much practical advice to guys like me who just love these trucks.
Just something I came up with after looking over the stock C6 pan - did you see my thread on building it? I also modified my original pan for more capacity and removal of the stock pan pressure bypass. When I went to the Kook's headers my modded stocker was no longer usable, so moved on to the C6 unit. These motors move a bunch of oil with the crank mounted, 1-1 pump, so I wasn't comfortable with just 6 qts of oil. The modded C6 is good for eight qts, and with my remote filter and #12 lines, I run 10 qts. total!
Eric, I was hoping you would comment on this. I like a 99% chance that my new MPD L88 hood will clear my new intake setup. I can't wait to get it.
Edit: We installed the L88 hood and everything is fitting with a little room to spare. The factory engine mounting is offset by around 3". If the engine was centered in the frame it would allow more clearance.
I often wonder how ideas like this come into our heads, you however not only envisioned this but are making it a reality. You sir are very gifted and we appreciate your sharing your dream with us.
As for me and my stock 04, the joke is that the way I drive I have 250 HP more than I ever use.
"Long may you run with you R shining and screaming down the track.
I often wonder how ideas like this come into our heads, you however not only envisioned this but are making it a reality. You sir are very gifted and we appreciate your sharing your dream with us.
As for me and my stock 04, the joke is that the way I drive I have 250 HP more than I ever use.
"Long may you run with you R shining and screaming down the track.
Jerry, don't know if you any interest or need, but I also tapped the hole for the oil level sensor, to 3/4" NPT. That allowed easy installation of an mechanical oil temp gauge.
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