..........GM is probably being more realistic....with the 400hp number....... It's all about airflow........and exhaust........and a chip modification.......and then you can add a Dynatech long tube headers......X pipe.......and on and on......425 should be easy.......... ************And then can't you just see a 14-71 Littlefield blower sticking out of the hood with a Wally Larson custom Electronic Fuel Injection on it with a healthy Nitrous System..........Horspower....hummmmmmmmmmmmm the sky is the limit.......or your pocketbook......Sorry, just doing a little dreaming
Last edited by Whitewolf : 10-01-2005 at 11:26 AM.
Reason: Addition
The power is exactly the same between the 05-06 it is rated at different RPM's. My 05 SSR 6 Speed dynoed the same as a 05 GTO with 6 Speed and higher then a 05 C6 with Automatic.
Anyone know where they found the 10 extra horses's in the '06's over the '05's?
Perhaps tuning?, that we all could do to our '05's that isn't major engine surgury?
Doug
Doug, it's all in the tuning. GM (and the other manufacturers) build extra horses into their programs by basically crippling your vehicle by limiting output. That way, they don't have to retool the assembly line to produce more powerful engines: They simply adjust the tuning for 10 or 15 extra horses each year.
Ok, so if I understand correctly, the LS2 6.0 engine in my '05 automatic has the same HP as the '06 automatic when at the same 6000rpm level? i.e. 395HP? I assume the 400HP that Chevy is marketing for the '06 six-speed is due to less power train parasitic drain with the manual vs. automatic transmission? Also, what is the little rectangular emblem on the lower corner to the rear of the front fender on each side of the '06? Is it a little bowtie? Cleavermodels
Ok, so if I understand correctly, the LS2 6.0 engine in my '05 automatic has the same HP as the '06 automatic when at the same 6000rpm level? i.e. 395HP? I assume the 400HP that Chevy is marketing for the '06 six-speed is due to less power train parasitic drain with the manual vs. automatic transmission? Also, what is the little rectangular emblem on the lower corner to the rear of the front fender on each side of the '06? Is it a little bowtie? Cleavermodels
Why would you assume the 400 HP is due to differences in drivetrain losses? This is easily obtainable through software tuning. We routinely generate 35-40 HP gains over stock on 5.3/6.0L engines, so there's no reason to believe GM could not do the same. Have you ever wondered how the same model truck gets 5-10 HP gains year after year?
My SSR: '06 PB #21661 Born 8/29/05, GHL "Old School" True Duals, ADDCO bars, Eibach rear, Joe's Tune
Brian,
Slightly off topic question for you....
After reprogramming the computer, whether complex Like what you did with Jim G's or as simple as a reprogram of the cooling fan set points, how does the software present itself to the "standard" GM hookup when interrogated? I had it suggested to me that the GM software connection will return with "rogue program load" to the GM service technician.
I suspect that there is an internal "checksum" that has to match somehow.
What is your experience?
I'm interested in doing some on my '05, but am a little leery of the subsequent possible warranty issues with the computer. Your comments?
After reprogramming the computer, whether complex Like what you did with Jim G's or as simple as a reprogram of the cooling fan set points, how does the software present itself to the "standard" GM hookup when interrogated? I had it suggested to me that the GM software connection will return with "rogue program load" to the GM service technician.
I use the same GM software (SPS) that the GM techs use to flash a PCM; the only difference is that I do not use a Tech 2 as does a GM tech. I can assure you there are no provisions for determing "checksums" or any other modifications. What the Tech 2 sees is simply the versions of the installed firmware. Since our tunes are pre-loaded with the latest GM firmware, a GM tech armed with a Tech 2 cannot detect a custom-programmed PCM; the PCM appears completely stock.
In fact, the Tech 2 is not capable of modifying portions of the firmware. GM distributes PCM modifications only as complete reflashes.
Quote:
I'm interested in doing some on my '05, but am a little leery of the subsequent possible warranty issues with the computer. Your comments?
If a GM tech had reason to believe you were running a modified PCM (and the only way this would happen is if you let it slip), the only thing they could require you do to is to return the vehicle to stock condition before they perform warranty work. But they'd have no way of proving that you weren't running a stock tune, and they certainly aren't going to spend time grilling you about it.
Just one last clarification....'05 automatic at 6000 rpm will have 395HP just like the '06? This is without chip modification, etc.? I'm just wanting an answer to a question. I'm not wanting to be sold on any after market changes. Thanks! Cleavermodels
My SSR: '06 PB #21661 Born 8/29/05, GHL "Old School" True Duals, ADDCO bars, Eibach rear, Joe's Tune
Manipulating the Numbers
Let me help a little with engine specs.....
Basic physics formula for converting between Torque and Horsepower:
(HP x 5252) = (Tq x RPM)
If you remember the graphs that show the relationship between torque and horsepower (vertical axis) versus RPM (horizontal axis), you know that peak torque occurs at about 4000 RPM. After that, there is a somewhat linear reduction in torque, as horsepower continues to rise. You can reference Jim G's charts on his truck.
I ran the numbers for the specs of a few LS2 ratings on Horsepower and the resultant torque values. I find a consistent linear relationship......
390 HP @ 5400 RPM converts to approximately 379 ft.lb. of torque @ 5400 RPM
395 HP @ 5700 RPM converts to approximately 363 ft.lb of torque @ 5700 RPM
400 HP @ 6000 RPM converts to approximately 350 ft.lb of torque @ 6000 RPM
If we took these numbers an plotted them on the "standard" LS2 engine performance graph, we should see that all the data points (both torque specs and HP specs) actually fall on the lines...... (+/- the accuracy of the data).
I think the Horsepower increase is just a marketing gimmick that the "spec" guys play with, year after year, to make us believe thay have changed something big.
Next year, they might choose to show a torque increase by specifying it at a different RPM....... Good Marketing.
Hope this helps.
Mike
__________________ Trust and Generosity are contagious.
Just one last clarification....'05 automatic at 6000 rpm will have 395HP just like the '06? This is without chip modification, etc.? I'm just wanting an answer to a question. I'm not wanting to be sold on any after market changes. Thanks! Cleavermodels
I'm sorry, I obviously misunderstood your original question.
The '05 will have whatever power that GM decided to allow in its programming. I believe that was 390 HP for the 6.0L...
Available power and rated power are two different animals. The engine may be capable of producing more power, but you'll get whatever GM decides you will get for that production year.
Thanks folks! I am told on one hand that the linear power and torque curves line up with what the "spec" people are telling marketing....in essence my engine in my '05 is the same as the'06 if driven to the same rpm, therefore same engine, no modifications, just advertised differently based on the HP and Torque charts. Then on the other hand I'm being led to believe that GM has programmed the engine differently being the "control freaks" that they are? So what is the verdict? Cleavermodels
My SSR: '06 PB #21661 Born 8/29/05, GHL "Old School" True Duals, ADDCO bars, Eibach rear, Joe's Tune
Hard to measure
A couple thoughts about the small difference.
To identify 5-10 HP difference at those RPMs would be difficult. Production engine power is a calculated value that, on a good day, has a tolerance band of +/- 1%. This gives a variability in the +/- 4 HP range. Possibly much greater, hard to say without an audit. The absolute number specification from GM NEVER has a tolerance band. I am in SERIOUS doubt that you could even tell a 5 HP difference, regardless of how good things are measured.
Sorry I can't be more positive, but the small delta in HP, without holding the other parameters constant doesn't hold much water for me. I think you could not measure a difference.
Regards,
Mike the skeptic
__________________ Trust and Generosity are contagious.
Mike,
I was just as skeptical when I read about the 395 HP for '06 vs. the 390 for the '05. There has been three responses that it is the same engine just marketed differently according to HP & Torque curves to make there seem to be a change. I'm convinced this is the point. Why reprogram for only 5 HP and run the risk of having to change other possible emissions, etc. parameters for such an incremental increase on a low volume production vehicle? Thanks! I'm satisfied and done with this thread of inquiry. Cleavermodels
I was told today by a friend that works at a GM dealership that the '06 model SSRs have a different intake manifold than the '05's to get the additional 10 advertised horsepower. I assume they must have just shortened the runner lengths and raised the RPM level to get the added 10 HP. I wonder if this had a negative effect on the torque curve?
Anyone else hear of intake manifold changes for the '06 SSR?
I was also told the T56 overdrive ratios where changed to a liitle less taller gear.
I thought I read there is a part change on the '06 manuals that gives the extra h.p. I thought it was intake related. Funny to read one guy thinks engine ratings are affected by the trans they are hooked up to........
'06 power increase question
It's all about airflow........and exhaust........and a chip modification.......and then you can add a Dynatech long tube headers......X pipe.......and on and on......425 should be easy.......... ************And then can't you just see a 14-71 Littlefield blower sticking out of the hood with a Wally Larson custom Electronic Fuel Injection on it with a healthy Nitrous System..........Horspower....hummmmmmmmmmmmm the sky is the limit.......or your pocketbook......Sorry, just doing a little dreaming 
Linear Mode
