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-   -   Cargo Cover Release Buttons Inoperative (http://www.ssrfanatic.com/forum/f5/cargo-cover-release-buttons-inoperative-69913/)

CSX4350 09-04-2013 04:27 PM

Cargo Cover Release Buttons Inoperative
 
This is my first post, I've been lurking and reading the information here, but finally found a reason to ask a question.

I went to drive my '06 SSR today, it had been so long that the battery was dead. I put a charger on it, and the cargo cover popped open when I turned the charger on. Now that the battery is back up, neither the remotes or the glove box button will pop the cargo cover open. I can open it manually, and when I re-inserted the fuse after checking it the cover again popped open. I checked the relay by swapping another one in, and the cover again pops open when it gets voltage but nothing out of the buttons. Too bad, I was going to drive it to the Mecum auction tomorrow but now I'll have to take my F150.

With my luck I'm sure this isn't going to be either easy or cheap to fix. I do have a 5,000 square foot shop here at home, with lifts and most any tool I need so I can do a fair amount of stuff here. Can anyone point me in the right direction of what to look for? I can't be the first one to have this problem, but a search on the forum didn't turn up anything.

TIA

John

Dragon2U 09-04-2013 06:04 PM

Hi John,
Welcome. Low batteries and chargers sometimes cause strange issues on these trucks. I would disconnect the charged battery, wait 10 minutes, then reconnect and see what happens. Might be a RDM issue but I would exhaust other steps first.

Oh, and by the way, where are you located? I wanna come over and hang out in that huge shop and drool at some of those toys :cheers

Dicktator 09-05-2013 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX4350 (Post 1249521)
This is my first post, I've been lurking and reading the information here, but finally found a reason to ask a question.

I went to drive my '06 SSR today, it had been so long that the battery was dead. I put a charger on it, and the cargo cover popped open when I turned the charger on. Now that the battery is back up, neither the remotes or the glove box button will pop the cargo cover open. I can open it manually, and when I re-inserted the fuse after checking it the cover again popped open. I checked the relay by swapping another one in, and the cover again pops open when it gets voltage but nothing out of the buttons. Too bad, I was going to drive it to the Mecum auction tomorrow but now I'll have to take my F150.

With my luck I'm sure this isn't going to be either easy or cheap to fix. I do have a 5,000 square foot shop here at home, with lifts and most any tool I need so I can do a fair amount of stuff here. Can anyone point me in the right direction of what to look for? I can't be the first one to have this problem, but a search on the forum didn't turn up anything.

TIA

John

John, I suggest pulling fuse #27, leave out for 15/20 minutes for capacitors to discharge.
Put fuse back in, this reboots, restores, ECM, computer setting back to OEM. Does not change hard settings.

Dicktator

ED in FL 09-05-2013 08:46 AM

Sounds like the Roof Door Module is the issue - the pushbutton and the Remote Control Door Lock Receiver both work through the RDM.
First check the fuses in the Rear Fuse Block - Fuse 32, 7, 4, 40, 28 & Bkr 1.
Check fuses in the Underhood FB - 8 & 19.
A replacenent RDM is about $230 and can be replaced in about 30 minuets, you will need to run the windows up & down so the replacement RDM learns the positions - no other programming is needed.

CSX4350 09-08-2013 11:44 AM

Thanks for the all the input. I got back from Mecum and tried everything suggested, but no luck. I have a GM tech coming to my shop tomorrow to use it for another vehicle, so he'll put a computer on the SSR and see if he can see anything with it.

Where is the RDM physically located in the truck?

Dragon, I'm just outside of San Antonio. Lots of insane old muscle cars in my shop to drool over.

rkenly 09-08-2013 01:02 PM

no such thing as an "insane" old muscle car - we might be insane for owning one - or more than one - or our wife might be insane for letting us own one... you get the picture :harhar:

Dragon2U 09-08-2013 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX4350 (Post 1255521)
Where is the RDM physically located in the truck?

RDM is a black box with 6 connectors on it. It's located behind the seat firewall where the top stores. If you actuate the top button to open up the top so that the cover doors are open but just before the top starts to move and look inside the storage area there, it is inside the very large black box against the wall. It has 2 metal latches on the front and I think there are 4-5 10mm bolts. Once inside the box sits right there on top with 6 connectors.

Hopefully the tech tool can pinpoint the issue for you. If you need one, I believe that they come in 2 flavors, 03-04 and 05-06.

Insane is good ;)

DOOPHUS 09-08-2013 01:39 PM

WELCOME, John . . . from Southern Arizona.

This may sound a little GOOFY and OUT IN LEFT FIELD, however, many years ago my deck lid would pop open every now and then without any help from me.

The fix after being checked by many experts . . . that little "escape" handle in the left rear corner of the bed was "half-pulled" and was causing the problem. Once un-pulled the lid has never popped up on its own again.

Simple enough but definitely worth checking.

CSX4350 09-08-2013 05:42 PM

I don't think that's the case here DOOPHUS, because the T-handle works fine, the backup release under the bed works fine, and it pops open if I disconnect/re-connect the power to the release circuit. Only the remote and glove box buttons are inoperative.

Insanity is measured by power-to-weight. In my shop, 4 to 5 pounds per HP is about normal.

Except for the one that weighs 2000 pounds and has 825 hp, that one's just plain scary.

DOOPHUS 09-08-2013 06:36 PM

Bummer, John, it would have been a "cheap fix" if only . . .

However, I did warn you it was a little GOOFY and OUT IN LEFT FIELD.

CSX4350 09-08-2013 07:32 PM

Hey, I'm all about checking easy and cheap first. I wish I had a buck for every time I started right in thinking the worst and after hours of work (and sometimes lots of money) found it was something obvious and simple. I think our first instinct is to immediately assume it is something major and we fail to check the small stuff first. This is one reason I've gotten to where I check the forums first now.

CSX4350 09-11-2013 09:57 PM

The GM tech scanned the SSR and said he's pretty sure it's the RDM. Gave the VIN to the parts guy, it took a while to find the module in the parts computer but it's ordered and should be in tomorrow (today by the time this posts). I sure hope that he got me the correct module and it fixes my problem.

I bought this truck so recently my license plates just came in yesterday. I'll update when I get the module in and installed.

Dicktator 09-12-2013 01:12 AM

Starting to see some failure in the RDM, Roof Door Module.

The RDM controls, roof, doors, windows, plus of course the bed cover release.

Roof will not operate with bed open.

I have seen some "refurbished" ones on the market.

Presently, I believe you can get one for about $250.

Remember 03/04 are different from 05/06.

RDM Roof Door Module

RDM 03/04 Part # 15134308

RDM 05/06 Part #15828426


Dicktator

CSX4350 09-13-2013 07:42 PM

OK, a quick update.

I removed the old RDM on Tuesday to try and find a part number. The new RDM arrived today, but it did NOT fix the problem. I noticed that the battery was down again, after having taken it off a charger just last night. Then I found the relay for the tonneau release to be HOT, like something in the circuit was drawing power.

Unplugging and plugging the relay in you can feel the relay energize when plugged in, but it STAYS energized until I unplug it. You can feel it open back up inside when you unplug it. I unplugged the release button in the glove box thinking maybe the button was the culprit, but the relay is still energized. I removed the RKE fuse (#32) from the console fuse box, to see if maybe the RKE was sending a signal to pop the tonneau, but the relay is still energized.

I'm really stumped. Any suggestions?

TIA

I forgot to mention that I did install a Sirius GM1 Satellite radio receiver, but the cargo cover worked fine after that install and it shouldn't have any impact on this issue anyway. I've even unplugged the power wire so it's only connected to the radio, but there's no power to the satellite tuner. I've got a friend who insists that's the cause of this, but I don't see how on earth that could have any effect on the tonneau opener.

Dragon2U 09-13-2013 07:55 PM

Wow, that is odd ..... where is the relay located that is hot to the touch? Are you talking about the relay in the trunk area that actually pulls the cable?

Did both issues happen at exactly the same time?

I think there are two orange wires on the back of the radio, one is power and one is for network traffic on the bus. If you used the wrong one there might be enough power to energize the satellite and cause issues on the bus.

CSX4350 09-13-2013 07:57 PM

No, it's relay #45 in the underhood fuse block, right next to fuse #6 which is the fuse for the cargo cover.

Dragon2U 09-13-2013 08:10 PM

Can you swap the relay with another one to see of something internally in the relay is the issue or do you have a volt meter you can check the fuse box pins and the relay for proper operation?

There have been a rash of underhood fuse box issues. Corrosion on some of them is causing cross talk or loss of the power/ground lines, you can do a search and see how to remove and clean it if needed.

Here is a diagram of the power plug on the back of the radio in case you need it, you can see there are two orange cables.

http://www.installer.com/cars/carphotos/gm_05.gif

CSX4350 09-13-2013 09:47 PM

I forgot to mention it but I already swapped out the relay for a different one, there are several of the same relay in that fuse box. The relay is fine, they all do the same thing.

As far as the satellite radio goes, I didn't tap into the power input on the back of the radio, I used a fuse tap and used the console fuse box, fuse #47, an ignition switched fuse.

Dragon2U 09-14-2013 08:05 AM

So, trunk button in glove box and remotes do not operate the trunk on a charged battery but when battery power is removed and reinstalled the trunk automatically opens?

So far .....
1. RDM swapped, no change
2. Relay under hood is hot from continuously running and draining battery
3. Swapping relays does nothing to change problem

I don't have a schematic of the trunk signal, but somewhere along the line there is a constant "open" signal going through the electronics that is reset when power is removed. Can anyone reading this post a schematic of the trunk operation if they have one? It would sure help here.

I would look at:
1. Insure the remotes are working properly, take out the battery in both the remotes, then do the truck battery power removal and reinstallation
2. Disconnect the button in the glove box area and again do the battery power removal and reinstallation

I'll keep thinking but really need a schematic of the signal path to dig deeper.

CSX4350 09-14-2013 09:03 AM

Button in the glove box is currently disconnected, as is the fuse for the keyless entry. It still does it.

I agree, I'd like to see a schematic of this circuit.

Dragon2U 09-14-2013 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX4350 (Post 1265929)
Button in the glove box is currently disconnected, as is the fuse for the keyless entry. It still does it.

I agree, I'd like to see a schematic of this circuit.

Here is a diagram to start to work with. I am trying to get a better more detailed one but not sure what else it will show. If/when I get it I will update this thread.

I guess you could start with checking C1 on the RDM and see if there is a ground signal at that location and go from there.


http://www.ssrfanatic.com/forum/atta...-schematic.jpg

CSX4350 09-14-2013 04:19 PM

Got it fixed today...

Doophus was actually right in his "left field" solution in post #8.

We checked a lot of circuits, finally unplugged the harness at the solenoid and that killed the problem, narrowing it down to something in the box that houses the cargo cover solenoid.

The handle inside the bed works a cam arrangement in the box where the release solenoid is. This cam hits a microswitch that actuates the electric opener circuit. Sadly, it doesn't need to use the electric system as it also pulls on the cables that release both sides of the tonneau latch. I assume the electric is there as an assist so you don't have to pull quite as hard.

Anyway, the cable from the inside latch was kinked and didn't release 100%. It probably released 85%, maybe lacked 1/4 inch from releasing fully. That little bit allowed the cam to keep the microswitch pushed, energizing the whole electrical circuit. We traced the problem down to what we thought was going to be a faulty solenoid, after removing the rear bumper cover we found this. We unkinked it and worked a bunch of silicone lube into the cable and it seems to be working OK for now, I'll just have to keep an eye on it. There's also a return spring in this box to return the cam arrangement back, it may possibly be fatiguing.

I actually could have removed the microswitch from the equation totally so it will never happen again, without affecting the inside release at all, but decided to leave it intact for now.

Here's a picture of the box with the solenoid, the cable from the inside release comes into the box in the middle on the left, you can see the cam & microswitch in the upper right corner.

http://crashandburnracing.net/images/ssr_solenoid.jpg

DOOPHUS 09-14-2013 04:44 PM

Not just another PRETTY FACE here, John.

! :glol ! :nono ! :glol ! :nono ! :glol !

CSX4350 09-14-2013 04:50 PM

On another note, this happened on an 8,000 mile SSR that is virtually brand new in every regard. The undercarriage looks like it's never seen rain. It even has the original tires. I'm really surprised that this cable did this on a vehicle this new.

If it does it again I'll modify the microswitch so the inner handle has to be pulled at least 50 to 60% to activate the electrics.

Believe me, when we found this I immediately flashed back to your post Doophus, and started kicking myself hard.

Dragon2U 09-14-2013 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOOPHUS (Post 1266537)
Not just another PRETTY FACE here, John.

! :glol ! :nono ! :glol ! :nono ! :glol !

Pretty face? Would never have guessed .... :pokey: Great guess, I would like to say I will remember the solution but I'll probably forget it when it happens again ... :whistling:

DOOPHUS 09-14-2013 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX4350 (Post 1266545)
On another note, this happened on an 8,000 mile SSR that is virtually brand new in every regard. The undercarriage looks like it's never seen rain. It even has the original tires. I'm really surprised that this cable did this on a vehicle this new.

If it does it again I'll modify the microswitch so the inner handle has to be pulled at least 50 to 60% to activate the electrics.

Believe me, when we found this I immediately flashed back to your post Doophus, and started kicking myself hard.

FYI, John . . . if I remember correctly, this "freako" happened to The Doophus at least five or six years ago and since I average about 2k miles a year . . . we're looking at less than half the mileage and only about a couple years of age.

On the positive side, it has never happened again . . . KNOCK ON WOOD.

mikebike 09-14-2013 06:53 PM

Thanks for the troubleshooting and photos.

xoxoxoBruce 09-14-2013 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSX4350 (Post 1266505)
Got it fixed today...

The handle inside the bed works a cam arrangement in the box where the release solenoid is. This cam hits a microswitch that actuates the electric opener circuit. Sadly, it doesn't need to use the electric system as it also pulls on the cables that release both sides of the tonneau latch. I assume the electric is there as an assist so you don't have to pull quite as hard.

Wait, what? Handle inside the bed? To open the lid?
I'm lost, do you mean the green, glow-in-the-dark, emergency release handle? :confused

CSX4350 09-14-2013 11:12 PM

That's the one Bruce! The one so that, if you're a dumb bunny like me, when you're 15 and you think it's hysterical to lock your brother in the trunk only to find out he has the keys in his pocket (in the days before remote keyless entry and remote trunk releases) he can get out. He still reminds me of that almost 40 years later.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce (Post 1267041)
I'm lost, do you mean the green, glow-in-the-dark, emergency release handle? :confused


Mike in AZ 09-15-2013 06:06 AM

Word of caution on the release handle
 
The computer in the SSR has some safety logic to keep us from doing something stupid. If the cargo cover (deck lid) is open, you cannot initiate the top sequence. This is because the top compartment cover (tonneau) and the deck lid would have to share the same space and cause some serious damage. Similarly, if the tonneau is open, the computer will prevent you from opening the deck lid........EXCEPT..... That this only applies to the glove box button and the button on the remotes..... The rear compartment emergency release and the external manual release do not go through the computer.

Here's the scenario that can get you in trouble:
I had washed my truck and was drying it off. I had the tailgate open with my towels out and had opened the tonneau to wipe around the edges. I discovered some leaves in the bottom of the top compartment and needed the little whisk broom (stored in the bed) to get them brushed to the side to wipe them out. I walked around to the back of the truck and pulled the "T" handle to open the lid so I could get to the broom......... It was in that instant of the lid popping open that I realized what was about to happen. I managed to grab the lid before any real damage occurred. I only had to polish out a small mark in the deck lid. Wow, that was too close.

Take-away lesson to be learned: Keep your wits about you when the tonneau is open - it is possible to do something stupid by using the manual overrides.....

Regards to all,

Mikey:jester


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