We had the first ssr in the shop thurs with "the fan problem " when the shop forman found out about the parts problem he called tech support here is where you guys and gals with an ssr you cant drive til sept might want to pay attention we were told by this guy from chevrolet to call a vw dealer near us and ask for part # 1j0-959-455-s-- this is a fan and motor assm that fits jettas golf gti beatles and so on in--install it on the ssr .We did have to change the electrcal connector after that it is a bolt on and it worked fine the tech drove it let it set at idle .not to take anything away from Mike"s fan I have one but if your one of the people waiting for a fan if we can do this your dealer should be able to also .The factory fan may not be very good but aleast you could drive your ssr again
F Y I -frank
My SSR: 2006 Blue over Primer'd Bondo 6spd #23424 slapped together 2/22/06
Wow...I didn't know that! I have a 2002 turbo VW Beetle...never had any cooling issues with the fan. Does this mean that the VW fan is prone to failure too? I'm a member at the VW forum, and no one to my knowledge has EVER complained of a fan failure...but the same fan seemingly continues to fry in the SSR???? The fan gets a workout in the tiny VW engine bay as well...so maybe the problem ISN'T the fan itself but rather a possible scenario with GM's control circuit which eventually burns up the resistor and fan motor??? Hmmmmm.......
I hope I don't have to worry about the VW fan going out!!!! Wait a second, I'm NOT!!! I think I'm on to something here. My fan in the VW runs on high CONSTANTLY because the A/C is always on. This is NOT a weak fan.
At least I know that when my SSR fan dies I can swap out the VW fan....but then the SSR will kill it in a matter of miles I'm afraid.
I bet there is some sort of voltage spike or some other anomaly in the GM circuit that these fans can't handle. They are tried and true in the VW's.
My SSR: 2004 Redline-#11446-1 of 43 Calif. Speedway Parade Lap Trucks 9/05/04 (#48 Jimmie Johnson)
Wow is this what it means....
to buy American ??? Get a fan from VW list $225.00 and sell for $550.00 from Gm parts counter to loyal Chevy customers way to go GM. Thats $325.00 for that made in American Label, don't you just love upper management they go to all these party's, live high on the hog and laugh their a$$'s off at how they bend us over. Sure am glad for the P/C now and internet it's informative and we can change our buying habits now. It took Japan to wake up the American car companies one time and now it's our turn to wake them up, make a better product, less price with quality, or we won't buy!!!!! Wait it's happening right now Ford & Gm and what do they do blame the workers for their problems I don't know about you guys but no one is worth well over six digit salaries with un-godly stock options to claim the workers with their employee pkg is causing the demise of car sales(pricing)....Sorry didn't mean to high-jack just hit a nerve and for the Fanatic's that know me I don't work for the auto industry...
My SSR: 2006 Blue over Primer'd Bondo 6spd #23424 slapped together 2/22/06
This thread needs a better title. I still don't think the burn-out of the stock fan is due to the fan itself. My fan in my Beetle NEVER goes off of high speed...and it has 48000 miles on it without a problem. Nobody on NewBeetle.org EVER complains of cooling fan failure.
I have a hunch as I stated that there is a glitch in the wiring control circuit that the stock fan and low speed resistor cannot take which fries the fan and the circuit.
My SSR: 04 Ricochet, ADDCO, Eibach, Joe’s Tune, Bernie’s Kit,Air Dam, Aux Fan & Lower Radiator Supt
I’m not an engineer so I’m only guessing. I don’t think there is a glitch in the wiring control circuit.
I think it all relates to the quality of the fan that makes it work so well. Their got to be a dozen different companies making fans for automobiles. As you see from other fan related threads, both Mike in AZ and Jim G are using different brands of fans.
The other thing that is killing the fans is the higher temps that are programmed into the computer from the truck division. The same engine in the Corvette and GTO have MUCH lower temp settings and a lower thermostat then the SSR. I just dont understand why they did this to the SSR, it must be a truck division thing.
I have been running the lower temp settings in the computer for almost a year now and my SSR never goes over 210 degrees with the stock original fan.
__________________ http://www.leftcoast32.com
'07 Black TrailBlazer SS "MP122HH" MagnaCharger
'05 SSR 6 Speed 427 "MP122HH" MagnaCharger Authorized MagnaCharger Dealer/Distributor
My SSR: 2006 Blue over Primer'd Bondo 6spd #23424 slapped together 2/22/06
All I'm saying is that this fan does NOT fail in the hundreds of thousands of VW's on the road. The fans in these cars run constantly at high speed. The high failure rate when only confined to the SSR must be due to some other reason...hell, they don't even run at high speed very often at all in the SSR compared to the VW. Something else is up.
My SSR: 06 Pacific Blue 6 speed, 3SS, Chrome Package #23714 BOD: 3/2/06
What's the temp sensor set to in the SSR? On my 99 6 speed Vette it doesn,'t come on till the 218-220 range. Once it kicks in the temp drops down pretty quick. If I keep the car I'll be sending he PCM to a company in IN to have it reprogrammed to come on sooner.
Speaking of temps...both times I test drove the Pacific Blue SSR that I'm trying to get I noticed that the temp seemed to stay right on 210. Even just after the car was started. Both time I was there we had to jump start becasue the battery was low. I know I got behind the wheel less than 5 minutes after it was started both times and 210 was the H2O temp. Didn't get much above that either after driving it in 107 heat. What's really strange is it must have sat in the parking lot when we got back and idled with the hood up for at least 15 minutes. I was out there (trying to figure out why the rear cover would not open with the key FOB or the glove box button) looking it over while they were discussing my offer. Temp may have gone past 210 by a needles width. I don't recall hearing the fan.
By the way.....what's the trick to opening the back. Beleive it or not no one in the sales dept could figure it out. Like I said the FOB abd the glovebox button did not get it done.
My SSR: 2006 Blue over Primer'd Bondo 6spd #23424 slapped together 2/22/06
Check the connections at the actuator board located under the driver's rear, just aft of the rear bumper. You can't miss it. The cover pops open and gets dirty/wet, and the connections corrode. Typical GM quality.
My SSR: 2006 Aqua Blur - SSRENITY #22578 Born 10/20/2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagger
What's the temp sensor set to in the SSR? On my 99 6 speed Vette it doesn,'t come on till the 218-220 range. Once it kicks in the temp drops down pretty quick. If I keep the car I'll be sending he PCM to a company in IN to have it reprogrammed to come on sooner.
Speaking of temps...both times I test drove the Pacific Blue SSR that I'm trying to get I noticed that the temp seemed to stay right on 210. Even just after the car was started. Both time I was there we had to jump start becasue the battery was low. I know I got behind the wheel less than 5 minutes after it was started both times and 210 was the H2O temp. Didn't get much above that either after driving it in 107 heat. What's really strange is it must have sat in the parking lot when we got back and idled with the hood up for at least 15 minutes. I was out there (trying to figure out why the rear cover would not open with the key FOB or the glove box button) looking it over while they were discussing my offer. Temp may have gone past 210 by a needles width. I don't recall hearing the fan.
By the way.....what's the trick to opening the back. Beleive it or not no one in the sales dept could figure it out. Like I said the FOB abd the glovebox button did not get it done.
I would suspect a blown fuse...maybe from improper jump starting. You can manually open the cover with the "T" shaped tool that should be in the truck. There is a plastic cover under the truck on the drivers side just in front of the rear bumper. Insert the tool, turn the handle and the lid will pop free. BTW...damage to the fan circuit has been known to happen from improper jump starting.
All I'm saying is that this fan does NOT fail in the hundreds of thousands of VW's on the road. The fans in these cars run constantly at high speed. The high failure rate when only confined to the SSR must be due to some other reason...hell, they don't even run at high speed very often at all in the SSR compared to the VW. Something else is up.
I think the fact that in the SSR the fan runs on low speed much of the time, may be part of the problem. From what I have read on this forum, the way they get the fan to have two speeds is to power it through an in-line resistor for low speed. When you add resistance you lower voltage, this is what gives you the lower speed, but when you lower the voltage to a given load (the fan), you increase the amperage. The inevitable result of increased amperage is a rise in temperature. I think it is a reasonable assumption that the hotter an electric motor runs the sooner it will fail. A possible fix for the fan problem may be to eliminate the resistor if it is external to the fan motor? Or if the resistor is internal to the fan motor, to rewire the circuit so that when power is applied to either the high or low speed wires coming from the controller it goes to the high speed input on the fan. This will require the installation of a diode, in-line on each of the wires (high and low speed) between the controller and the fan motor. Just a thought, it’s been many years since I was a practicing EE, so I may be way off base. Maybe someone who is more current than I am can offer an opinion.
My SSR: '06 PB #21661 Born 8/29/05, GHL "Old School" True Duals, ADDCO bars, Eibach rear, Joe's Tune
Close, but......
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRYS
I think the fact that in the SSR the fan runs on low speed much of the time, may be part of the problem. From what I have read on this forum, the way they get the fan to have two speeds is to power it through an in-line resistor for low speed. When you add resistance you lower voltage, this is what gives you the lower speed, but when you lower the voltage to a given load (the fan), you increase the amperage. The inevitable result of increased amperage is a rise in temperature. I think it is a reasonable assumption that the hotter an electric motor runs the sooner it will fail. A possible fix for the fan problem may be to eliminate the resistor if it is external to the fan motor? Or if the resistor is internal to the fan motor, to rewire the circuit so that when power is applied to either the high or low speed wires coming from the controller it goes to the high speed input on the fan. This will require the installation of a diode, in-line on each of the wires (high and low speed) between the controller and the fan motor. Just a thought, it’s been many years since I was a practicing EE, so I may be way off base. Maybe someone who is more current than I am can offer an opinion.
JRYS,
In the development of the replacement for the main fan, I dug as deep into the OEM unit as I could without tearing mine up. I measured the current draw on the motor in both low and high speed. 9 amps on low, 27 on high. The in-line resistor for low speed measures at 1.0 ohms.
The real issue is that the reduced voltage to the motor (about 7 vdc when running) creates a significant increase in brush arcing.
There are two significant failure modes.... The most prevalent is brush failure, with failure of the in-line resistor a not-too-close second.
The design of the OEM motor just doesn't seem to put up with reduced voltage as well as other motors do....
My Best Regards,
Mike
__________________ Trust and Generosity are contagious.
In the development of the replacement for the main fan, I dug as deep into the OEM unit as I could without tearing mine up. I measured the current draw on the motor in both low and high speed. 9 amps on low, 27 on high. The in-line resistor for low speed measures at 1.0 ohms.
The real issue is that the reduced voltage to the motor (about 7 vdc when running) creates a significant increase in brush arcing.
There are two significant failure modes.... The most prevalent is brush failure, with failure of the in-line resistor a not-too-close second.
The design of the OEM motor just doesn't seem to put up with reduced voltage as well as other motors do....
My Best Regards,
Mike
OK, that still leads me to believe that the elimination of the low speed function will increase the reliability of the OEM fan. Since the goal is to cool down the engine, why not just have the fan come on at high speed and get the job done. The shorter run time on high speed should make up for the higher current load on the charging system. Perhaps the "KISS" method is what we need here?
My SSR: '06 PB #21661 Born 8/29/05, GHL "Old School" True Duals, ADDCO bars, Eibach rear, Joe's Tune
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRYS
OK, that still leads me to believe that the elimination of the low speed function will increase the reliability of the OEM fan. Since the goal is to cool down the engine, why not just have the fan come on at high speed and get the job done. The shorter run time on high speed should make up for the higher current load on the charging system. Perhaps the "KISS" method is what we need here?
You're right, but GM has been using the two speed function for many, many years without these kinds of problems. The only variable that was changed was the brand of fan (motor). You don't have to be a Six Sigma Black Belt to recognize the issue.... All the fan motors that GM used in the past were from suppliers other than this one.
Mike
__________________ Trust and Generosity are contagious.
You're right, but GM has been using the two speed function for many, many years without these kinds of problems. The only variable that was changed was the brand of fan (motor). You don't have to be a Six Sigma Black Belt to recognize the issue.... All the fan motors that GM used in the past were from suppliers other than this one.
Mike
Nice logic. Too bad it doesnt necessarily apply in my job. It should though...
Wow is this what it means....
Wait it's happening right now Ford & Gm and what do they do blame the workers for their problems
I don't know about you guys but no one is worth well over six digit salaries with un-godly stock options to claim the workers with their employee pkg is causing the demise of car sales(pricing)....Sorry didn't mean to high-jack just hit a nerve and for the Fanatic's that know me I don't work for the auto industry...
Why is my wife...
