My SSR: 2006 Blue over Primer'd Bondo 6spd #23424 slapped together 2/22/06
Hi everyone; I'm back from Utah...some observations
Hello everyone. I'm back in Louisiana from Utah. My trip was cut short by a week due to errors by the traveling nursing agency I was working for. But, no big deal...
I want to thank everyone here who helped me with my clutch woes before and during my trip, especially Art. After having my dealer in Louisiana supposedly bleed the system (I think they just flushed the reservoir) once and me refilling the reservoir when it was nearly empty for some unknown reason I never again experienced any kind of seriously disabling clutch problems (despite fluid boiling over...bring extra DOT 4) since the first day leaving Miami when the pedal stuck. I'm nearly convinced the clutch problem is merely a heat problem and not due to malfunctioning master/slave cylinders, O-rings, or diaphragms. I think the heat causes a breakdown of the fluid which irritates the internal parts. I haven't had a chance to heat shield the hydraulic clutch lines yet, and never had the insanely high temperatures emanating off of the entire truck body like I did in Miami (the entire truck body, while the engine temperature stayed at 210 got HOT to the touch). I now have nearly 9500 miles on my truck since I bought it, and the clutch is covered up to 7500 according to the dealer. But, I have an open case, with an order for a new master cylinder. I'm not sure if I'm going to even have this done. What are everyone's thoughts? Should I? What is required to change the master cylinder...ie, what has to come apart? I'm leary with disassembling the drivetrain just yet because I have no tink whatsoever (although I do have a driveline play/slack issue, read on below)...
Anyway, here are some observations after 9500 miles of north and south, east and west, cross country ownership:
1) Truck DEFINITELY loses a LOT of power with anything less than 93 octane. Getting back to the south where it is available while resetting the computer/fuse and the truck feels unbelievably stronger. I am NOT exaggerating. The truck feels as fast as my Trans Am with adequate octane fuel. The effects of ethanol are NOT to be taken lightly on this truck. On short 8% grades out west even without the trailer the truck felt embarassingly underpowered when running 90 octane/10% ethanol. I got passed by a damb METRO. The difference is absolutely astounding. Going up a hill, flooring it in 3rd and the torque guage would barely peg 250. Could NEVER get it to 350, even in super cool conditions when running less than 93 octane. The drop in power was so noticable that at times I would SWEAR something was WRONG with the truck.
2) Truck HATES heat. Heat KILLS your gas mileage (and to a lesser extent, performance of course). For instance, towing my Scamp across the flat lands of Oklahoma at 70mph, even with 91 octane, I regularly achieved 18 with a best of 19.06 mpg at 70-75 ambient temperature...remember this is WHILE TOWING amazingly. Down south, where everything is flat, with temperatures in the upper 80's/lower 90's and I got between 12 and 13, going 70mph. Slowing down doesn't help; gas mileage stays the same. BTW, I always fill the tank to the top and check the mileage myself; the on board computer is not accurate. But, it does represent proportionally the drop I'm talking about. You don't notice a power loss or gain in these driving conditions or any change in coolant temperature (always right around 210) but the mileage drops substantially. This is with driving as EASILY as can be. I'm not sure why ambient temperature alone has such an effect, but it absolutely does KILL your mileage for no other reason.
3) I would NOT be without Mike's fan. My temperature 99% of the time stayed at the "1" in 210. Coming down slopes using compression to slow the truck/trailer and temperature drops below the "2". The ONLY time my temperature would get to the "0" in 210 is following very slow moving vehicles (as in 15-20mph) up giant climbs where you can't get natural engine airflow. I always set Mike's fan at the lowest setting to where it is on constantly, just for added insurance while towing up grades. I tried using the A/C on recirculate to use the engine fan to help cooling but further found this to be detrimental, leading to my next point...
4) The benefits of running the A/C on recirculate for the sole purpose of utilizing the main fan (not caring about cooling the cockpit) for extra engine cooling are superceded by the extra heat produced by the condenser resulting in actually increased engine temperature. Now, if you DON'T have Mike's fan, then by all means keep the A/C on recirculate to help control engine temperature fluctuations. But, after thousands of miles of research on this, I can say with 100% certainty that running the A/C on even on a cool/cold day (40-50 degree temps) absolutely increased my temperature to the right side of the "1" when compared to the left side of the "1" when leaving it off. This was while pulling grades with the trailer, driving solo, anything...the A/C condenser definitely puts out far more heat than I thought, and negatively affects the cooling system even on cold days. If you have Mike's fan, don't use the A/C if you don't need it for its primary purpose.
5) The truck definitely even with 90 octane/ethanol has more than enough power to tow my super hard to tow tiny egg trailer (see my previous posts about how much of a brick my Scamp is to tow). This, of course, is noted only while comparing truck solo performance with towing performance. Grades that the truck solo had minor difficulty transversing were nearly the SAME towing the trailer. When I had adequate octane (at least 91, significant drop occurs at 90 for some reason) without ethanol (this absolutely kills performance), I can literally FLY up mountains if I want. It was kinda fun doing it in the middle of nowhere. The famous Hogsback of Utah is a 4 mile 14 percent grade. Last year I crept up it towing my Scamp with my Caravan at 10mph in 1st gear waiting for it to blow up. With a fully loaded trailer and SSR I could slam up this twisty straight-up mountain at 40mph, only limited by the switchbacks. This truck, if it had a competent clutch and cooling system could easily tow a giant travel trailer. Absolutely.
6) I had ZERO oil consumption. No leaks besides the clutch fluid. Engine runs amazingly smooth. No muffler is LOVELY even when towing. Most of my towing was with the top down. 6spd 6 Liter sounds GREAT through just the cats blasting off the trailer's front wall. Best touring/traveling/towing vehicle I've ever had. The heater and seat heaters (even though my passenger side is intermittent) keep you warm even when driving the mountains with the top down in 28 degree weather. I even drove through a primitive campground and nearly bottomed out the truck and trailer in mud. Didn't hurt anything, but it was infuriating at the same time it was resoundingly fun.
7) Everyone asks the same thing: "Did you make that yourself?" Um, yeah...I made it in my garage. That's why it has Chevy badges.
8) I have to get one of the drop-hitch extentions. My trailer sits too high in the front, and I have to weigh down the front bathroom with everything I can to prevent rear end sway. Remember, this trailer since I bought it had a PROBLEM of too much tongue weight (220-250 lbs) and squashed the rear of all my other cars...not the SSR. I had to deflate to 5lbs my AirLift bags due to lack of need (even with the trunk/bed full). I even once had to empty my rear freshwater tanks into my toilet tank to get more weight up front after I hit a section of terrible bumpy uneven pavement at 55mph up a mountain that nearly ripped the trailer off the truck swaggering from side to side. So, a properly balanced hitch set-up is a must.
I will post pictures when I can get them to the computer; I was at some NEAT places and got some good shots of the truck/trailer/scenery. I had a freak minor accident, though. A giant oversize load was coming down a backroad in New Mexico so I got in the shoulder, and ran over what I thought was a piece of tire. What it was in actuality was a giant looped string of steel with a chain on it. Some way (I have no clue how) it got slapped up between my passenger rocker panel (the plastic part) and my running board, tearing a chunk out of the plastic and leaving two 6" long gouges in the silver paint. Talk about luck. Didn't hurt the running board. Does anyone know if these rocker panels are available painted from GM like the A-pillar covers are? Or, if you have a silver truck and swapped out to MPD running boards please let me know (I realize there's a next to nil chance of that!!!) But, it really pissed me off when that happened...I mean, what are the odds??
Other gripes....my silver paint on the front continues to flake off around rock chips. I can live with little rock chips...say, the 1/8" diameter ones. But, you can see a "bubble" around the chips where the paint is lifting which is 2-3 times the size of the chip itself, and it greatly concerns me. I guess I have to get in touch with a GM rep afterall about faulty paint. I hate stuff like that.
My only real "problem" that I mentioned while I was out west buried in my other post was excessive driveline slack that no one responded to. I will copy it here now:
One problem I have noticed is excessive play in the driveline somewhere. It is more noticable withOUT the trailer. I'm bewildered to think that this tiny trailer was the culprit in causing driveline slack. The truck USED to drive like an automatic in so much as cruising through a small town in 3rd at 30mph would be smooth as silk. Now, when you let off the gas it throws you forward, and when you try to give it a tiny bit of gas it jerks you back. Its very annoying. I tried to ease through some road construction at 35mph in cruise control mode in 3rd gear and it was unbearable with the jerking. What causes this? Is this play in the driveshaft or the rear end, or even U-joints? I hate to have it serviced because I have no rear end whine, no "tink" whatsoever (even when I feel it jerk due to the play), and no leaks. It did NOT do this before this trip. Please steer me to what it could be. I know it is NOT normal, but I fear a GM dealership will tell me it is. Please help.
Again, I have no "tink" and need help as to what could be causing the play. If you have any ideas, please help....
So, everyone, I'm glad to be back on the site. Hope someone missed me ha ha. If you're reading this long post, if you can, please provide any advice you can regarding any of my questions regarding the master cylinder, rocker panel, or driveline slack. Thanks again!!!
Thanks also to everyone who has PM'd me. I appreciate being remembered.
My SSR: '05 Redline Red #20727.... Born on 05/05/05
Welcome back, glad to hear your trip was mainly uneventful as to the SSR. Not sure about the jerking. Could be differential. I have an automatic and soon after delivery experienced some skip-shifting between 1st-2nd, rebuilt tranny and seemed to fix it. One day I will visit Phoenix transmission per JimG's direction and have a REAL tranny installed.
I've posted a few comments about the never ending issue with my clutch and transmission. My SSR was in the shop again this week, and when I took delivery of it this afternoon, it shifted just like it did when I took it in three days ago.
When I asked if they had done anything, they told me no, because they had called their Chevy. rep. and told him what they had done (changed out clutch and pressure plate), and the rep. told him that it sounded like they have done everything correctly and it must be okay, and I must be making a big deal out of nothing.
When I asked the service mgr. if he drove it, he told me yes, and he thought it was fine. Then I asked him if he had ever driven an SSR 6 speed before, and he said no. So I asked him if he hasn't ever driven one, then how could he know if it was shifting correctly. He simply stood behind his comment about what the Chevy rep. told him.
I know it isn't shifting correctly, because one time when I got it back (before the clutch and pressure plate were installed), the clutch felt nice and stiff, and it shifted into gears very smoothly. This was the same morning when the guy that checks you in and out, told me that his service tech. had flushed the clutch fluid, to make sure that there was no air in the system. And today when I told the service mgr. what the other guy had told me, he said he talked with his service tech who told him that he never flushed the fluid, like the other guy said. And when I asked if they have had any other tech work on it, he said no.
If everyone is experencing the same feel when shifting into gears (non smooth and feeling each gear), let me know and I'll just accept it. But if everyone is experencing a smooth shift without feeling the gears, then please let me know that too. And if your dealership fixed it so that it would shift smooth, please tell me what they did to accomplish it, so that I can tell my dealer how to fix it.
And if it turns out that the dealer is screwing me around, I'm going to tell everyone reading this in the St. Louis area, to never take their SSR to Butler Chevy., on Watson Road in Crestwood.
I look forward to hearing from EVERYONE in the near future.
Mileage - were you running in 5 th or 6th? My 2000 mi car towing trip averaged about 17 but I was running in 6th.
My clutch fluid is low and dark. I get an occasional funny with the pedal. I'm going to drain the reservour almost to the bottom and add new fluid. Repeat as necessary...
Driveline slack - it may be one of the "features" GM put in the computer. They call it tip in bump elimination. What it amouts to is that when you take your foot off the gas it doesn't close the throttle for about a second or so. I find it hard to drive like a normal stick since it's trying to act more like and automatic.. Getting the torque management reduced helps but there is another table in the computer for the bump elimination. Another tune for another day.
My SSR: 04 Ricochet, ADDCO, Eibach, Joe’s Tune, Bernie’s Kit,Air Dam, Aux Fan & Lower Radiator Supt
Welcome back Jeff. That a lot of miles you've put on within the last couple of months. How do those tires looks after all those miles? Think you can get another 10.0K miles out of them?
My SSR: 2006 Blue over Primer'd Bondo 6spd #23424 slapped together 2/22/06
Hi Hutch...
I can't "feel the gears" at all on my truck. Unless I'm shifting "wrong" at super high rpm by applying too much accelerator without the clutch fully out...that is the only time when I first bought the truck that I felt what I thought was metal on metal noise. But, as long as I shift "correctly" I never feel the gears. I'm not sure 100% what you are describing, but it makes me want to keep the dealer away from my truck even more!
Hi Art...
Thanks again for all your help. 95% of my towing was in 5th. The only time I could use 6th was with no headwind on an absolutely flat road or else I had the feeling I was lugging the engine. 4.10's would help this I'm sure. I COULD have used 6th more I suppose, but I was too scared of lugging. Any time I was in 6th I'd be going along fine, watching the mpg with cruise on...if it dropped below 10 on a tiny hill I would downshift, because at that point I could floor it and not accelerate, which to me spelled bad news. I found I got no better gas mileage running in 6th while towing at all for the simple reason that the truck needs a lot more gas to try to accelerate where it doesn't make much power too often in that situation. 5th is perfect for me towing power-wise, I can go up nearly any highway mountain and not downshift and hold 70 (or faster). But, I would like to use 6th if only it were a tad lower. But, if I switch to 4.10's I don't want to jeapordize the great performance 5th gives me; I don't want to run any higher rpm's than I do now. But, hopefully 4.10's will allow me to use 6th 95% of the time rather than 5th. What do you think? As far as towing, anything below 1800rpm doesn't provide much pep, and too close to 1500 rpm at regular highway speeds is too close to the lugging danger zone for me. Again, regarding mileage, I see no other causative effect besides ambient temps/humidity down south that would cause me to lose up to 6mpg...even without any hint of hill climbing.
Regarding the bump in/tip out (I've talked to Joe about that before) are you saying that if I eliminated it totally I would jerk that much MORE??? Something just feels way too "slack-y" for me. I reset the computer, and it DEFINITELY made a difference (eases more into speed now) but its not how it was when new. It's probably 70% better, but I still want to know where any play could be coming from and what could I do to correct it. Thanks again.
Hi 89rod...
My tires look surprisingly great. My back tires look NEW. I towed with 40psi in each for the added load. I went with 36psi on each up front, and that seemed to work fine. As far as wear, on the front I noticed a little scrubbing of the tread surface, but no bad corner wear (and I hit the twisties pretty hard on those mountains without the trailer) as I was expecting. I am amazed at the treadlife actually after reading all the horror stories. I am absolutely sure I can get another 20000 miles out of them. Even after riding down back dirt roads, rocks, ruts, and mud, I'm astounded by their lack of visible wear. I don't do many burnouts (maybe 2) so I have no increased central tire wear on my rears. I'm happy with the tires; I thought I wouldn't be, since I had RS-A's on my competition Neon when new and they sucked arse; instant wear and cupping. These seem to be MUCH improved, grippy (for what they are), quiet, don't grab grooves in the road (my F1's on my T/A will make you think you're on a Disney World guided track the car follows the road so much), and nice riding.
Thanks again everyone. Anyone have any more ideas on the master cylinder, rocker panel, or driveline play?
So what is actually required to change out the master cylinder? Do you have to remove the transmission? Forgive my ignorance.
Thanks,
Jeff
Clutch MC right?
Shop manual makes it look easy...
Disconnect pushrod from pedal
Remove fluid from reservoir
remove reservoir'remove line cip from MC
remove line from MC to concentric actuator cylinder (slave)
remove mounting nuts from MC remove MC.
The famous Hogsback of Utah is a 4 mile 14 percent grade. Last year I crept up it towing my Scamp with my Caravan at 10mph in 1st gear waiting for it to blow up. With a fully loaded trailer and SSR I could slam up this twisty straight-up mountain at 40mph, only limited by the switchbacks.
So Jeff...what kinda time did you get between Boulder and Escalante without towing the trailer...or did you try it? All Hwy 12..should be great with the SSR...I lived in Boulder so know the area very well.. My father has driven the school bus to/from Escalante for 30 years now.
My SSR: 2006 Blue over Primer'd Bondo 6spd #23424 slapped together 2/22/06
Thanks again Art!
Z...I never really drove Hwy12 without the trailer during the daytime...at night I didn't go too fast! I probably saw your father. I stayed at Calf Creek for a few days and the bus drivers FLY over that mountain! Couldn't believe it!
My SSR: 2006 Blue over Primer'd Bondo 6spd #23424 slapped together 2/22/06
Hey I found just a couple pics! These are somewhere in Colorado...probably around Mesa Verde area...not much scenery yet, but much more to come when I find them all!!!!!
Hey I found just a couple pics! These are somewhere in Colorado...probably around Mesa Verde area...not much scenery yet, but much more to come when I find them all!!!!!
Nice pix. I'm sure the SSR didn't even know it was towing..
My SSR: 2006 Blue over Primer'd Bondo 6spd #23424 slapped together 2/22/06
Hi Art....
Looks can be deceiving! That little thing is a ***** to tow by any vehicle that SHOULD be able to tow it! It took an OVERKILL tow vehicle to be able to tow it the way a 4 cylinder SHOULD tow it...that little tiny trailer is like a brick with the wheels turning the other way! Trust me...I ALWAYS felt it. I just had the abundant power to pull it! Shouldn't be that way though...I am nearly certain a 25ft tandem axle trailer would be EASIER to tow! That little Scamp weighs about 2500lbs fully loaded...but feels like 7500.
My SSR: 04 Ultra Violet #11182, Born on 6/9/04; 05 Aqua Blur #18114, Born on 11/18/04
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggoat!!!
These are somewhere in Colorado...probably around Mesa Verde area...
Hey there - nice pics. The first one looks like it could be the Mesa Verde area, but the second one - not so sure. Lived and worked there for years with the National Park Service. Good pics regardless of where - looking to get back to southern Colorado for a weekend or two in the not too distant future - depending on snowload! Glad you had a safe trip! (Also spent many summers in the White Canyon, Deer Flat, Bears Ears area - you know where?)
Hi everyone; I'm back from Utah...some observations
Feel when shifting
SSR 1st Chevy/1st 6spd- Saw it, loved it, bought it. 
I probably saw your father. I stayed at Calf Creek for a few days and the bus drivers FLY over that mountain! Couldn't believe it!
