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Roof & Windows not operating

18K views 47 replies 14 participants last post by  nj6969 
#1 ·
Greeting Fanatics!

Hope someone out there can give me some help. I've been searching the Forum, but have not found any post with a similar situation.

Neither my Windows nor my Roof are operating in my 2005 Auto . The last time I drove the R, about two months ago, it all was working fine. Now both Windows fail to go down, or index when I open or close the doors. The roof also fails to operate at all! I'm getting a message of "Roof Ajar" when I'm driving and of course the persistent chime.

I've inspected the relevant fuses and switched the circuit breakers around. Manually unlatched the Roof, cracked it open and manually closed it again. Disconnected the battery at the engine bay in hopes of resetting the Roof Module, but I don't know if this cuts power to this module.

I'm suspecting a bad Roof Door Module, but this is only an assumption and not based in any facts. Can anyone tell me if this module controls the Roof and the Windows?

Help would be greatly appreciated!
 
#2 ·
Mine did the same thing!! We resolved this problem by switching around the two silver fuses that are behind the passenger seat. Not sure why this worked; but the body roof and door reset and started working!! Maybe you can try this solution!

Good Luck
HOT-SSR
Larry Jones
 
#3 ·
Well, that's the first thing I would have done! :crazy
You guys are nuts! - Good nuts mind you! :yesnod
Ask Fuji - he will have you take a hammer out on something! :cheers

Hope you get it sorted out!
 
#4 ·
In answer to your question
Yes power windows and roof are controlled by Roof door module. RDM receives power from fuse #28 in rear fuse box - be sure to check for fuse with voltmeter or test light -- should have voltage or a test light when connected to good ground on both side of fuse. RDM is grounded at G301 -- you need to check that also
Does anything else not work - door locks, exterior lighting etc? NO - check 125 amp fuse underhood fuse box
If fuse #28 tests good and all else works // Next best step would be to check for communication with a scan tool to RDM
 
#8 ·
Thank you autoprof :liebe011:

Now that I know that the RDM controls both the Windows and the Roof, i'm guessing the problem got to do with the RDM or its peripherals. Everything else aside from the Roof and Windows is operating just fine. I had check Fuse 28 but not for power; following your suggestion, I checked for power at both ends of the fuse and both ends have power.

Forgive my ignorance, but I have no idea where to find G301.

Under-hood 125 amp main fuse is good.

I'll be researching a Scan Tool to buy, any suggestions?
 
#9 · (Edited)
Don't know where to find G301?

How about SSR How to Library, what a thought. SSR Grounds.

https://onedrive.live.com/?id=3EF39D9F5ADCE5E5!853&cid=3EF39D9F5ADCE5E5

Should be first place to look but seems to always be the last place to look.

RDM (Roof Door Module) should be called RDWM for Roof Door WINDOW Module.

They are available from Dealer, not very reliable according to my Chevy Tech.

About $300. rebuilt, have to turn in your RDM and they give you rebuilt one, just plug it in.

Located in Big Black Box in roof compartment. ON How to Library.



Dicktator
 
#12 ·
Don't know where to find G301?

How about SSR How to Library, what a thought. SSR Grounds.

https://onedrive.live.com/?id=3EF39D9F5ADCE5E5!853&cid=3EF39D9F5ADCE5E5

Should be first place to look but seems to always be the last place to look.

RDM (Roof Door Module) should be called RDWM for Roof Door WINDOW Module.

They are available from Dealer, not very reliable according to my Chevy Tech.

About $300. rebuilt, have to turn in your RDM and they give you rebuilt one, just plug it in.

Located in Big Black Box in roof compartment. ON How to Library.

03/04 RDM will not work on 05/06 SSR. Order right one.

Dicktator
Thank you Dicktator!!!

You're the Best of the Best!

The first thing I did when I encounter the problem, was to go into the "How to Library" you gifted our community with. But I did fail to go back to it, when looking for the ground location; I did that now and I don't have a ground problem.

Best regards to you and Kathy.
 
#10 ·
Since you are getting the Ding-Ding alarm, the 125 amp fuse is good.
(The 125 amp fuse feeds the Rear Fuse Box, the Amplifier powers the DING-DING, so the RFB has power.)
To temporally stop the Ding-Ding pull the 25 amp Amplifier fuse in the Rear Fuse Box. (05/06 "R"s only)
I have a spare 05/06 RDM and can bring it to Jacksonville this week.
I will be there about 5pm Thursday.
PM me with your phone number if you want the RDM.
 
#14 ·
Thank you for the insight Ed!

Removing the 25 amp Amplifier fuse has made the R driveable without going Nuts :banghead

My R is covered under an extended warranty that will cover the RDM replacement. Just the same I might be interested in buying your RDM, so i can get the Roof and Windows to work, until I have a chance to take it to the dealer. It behooves me to have an extra RDM as I own 2 R's. Let me analyse how much work it takes to replace the RDM, as I will have to install the defective one again before I take it to the Dealer.

Ed, how can I make sure that I have an RDM failure?

Thank you Sir Ed
 
#18 ·
From the Dicktator

Looking trough the Forum I found a thread where the Dicktator writes about the RDM functions:

"Controls windows indexing, up/down and your A/C, yes A/C. If you start blowing warm air, RDM."

http://www.ssrfanatic.com/forum/f5/top-windows-inop-142129/

So if the RDM controls the AC, and my AC is working properly, then I supose I do not have a bad RDM:puzzled:
 
#19 ·
Looking trough the Forum I found a thread where the Dicktator writes about the RDM functions:

"Controls windows indexing, up/down and your A/C, yes A/C. If you start blowing warm air, RDM."

http://www.ssrfanatic.com/forum/f5/top-windows-inop-142129/

So if the RDM controls the AC, and my AC is working properly, then I supose I do not have a bad RDM:puzzled:
The RDM does not control the A/C!
The HVAC module controls the A/C.!
 
#21 ·
New Symptom

I'm experiencing another symptom: The rear hatch fails to open sometimes, regardless of using the remote or the release inside the Glove Box. Then I try it later and it works. This has happened already 3 times.

I'm almost ready to take the car to the dealer, but I want to gain as much insight as possible before I do, as we know the dealers are not to savvy when it comes to our roadsters. Thank God the owner of the dealer that I would use, owns an SSR and supposedly he has a couple of mechanics trained to service the SSR.
 
#22 · (Edited)
If you are hearing the cargo cover release solenoid actuate each time, but the cargo cover is not releasing, then it is probably the release cables that need adjusting. If you are not hearing the solenoid each time, then it may be the solenoid (known failure item), possibly the relay (less likely) or the wiring/connectors. The solenoid is located inside a housing under the fender behind the driver's side rear wheel. See Dicktator's repair procedure site for more info on the cargo cover solenoid. (Bed Cable Adjustment, Bed Release Actuator)

That being said, the RDM controls the cargo cover release.... I think you have some definite electrical issues occurring directly related to the RDM........
 
#31 ·
Thank you River_Rat:liebe011:

When the rear cover does not open, I do not hear the solenoid activating; I'm hoping that this problem with the rear cargo cover is associated with the Roof & Window failure. If not I'll follow your lead as to address this issue.:liebe011:
 
#23 ·
Octagon Man
The AC and rear compartment release are tied into the RDM.
The AC request signal is sent from the HVAC module though the Evap temp sensor to the RDM. The RDM then uses this input and broadcasts a message on the class 2 data line to the other modules for AC operation request.
See the attached diagrams -- I circled the RDM in both diagrams.

I also found in the power top description and operation that says "AC is OFF" before power top operation- explains why the AC request signal is sent to the RDM. But I could swear that I put my top down before with the AC on? I going to have to purposely try it both ways now! (checked service manual for 04 and 06 both say the same.) Just because it is written - it doesn't make it true!

The RDM seems unique to most automotive modules - Most use low current inputs and then control outputs by turning on and off a relay. The RDM does this and more. Besides all the input sensors and data it operates the Roof pump relay, the cargo cover relay AND it directly operates (controls) the higher current circuits for the window motors and the top latch actuator.

The fact the rear compartment works at times and the AC compressor works would lead me to believe the RDM can perform SOME functions and must not be totally dead. I believe it is capable of transmitting data (AC operation) but cannot operate higher current outputs - window motor and top latch actuator. Might be resistance in the high current power feed (or ground) connections/wiring to RDM. Could still be a bad RDM.
Because you have another SSR there -- try removing only the circuit breaker for the Roof Door (circuit breaker #1) on good SSR. Note what works and what doesn't - AC, cargo release, window, roof.- see if it is similar. I am going to have to try this too!

Again scan tool (check RDM for codes) and voltage drop testing to RDM would be next step for me because I have access to Tech 2.
 

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#32 ·
Thank You for the insight autoprof:liebe011:

Both of my SSR's are in different locations, so I can't switch things over, but I did change the circuit breakers around, as the 3 in the RFB are the exact same; unfortunately this did not solve anything.

AutoProf, I've been meaning to buy a Scan Tool for my vehicles, what do you think of this one:



:liebe011:
 
#24 ·
OK, so one more mistake in service manual.
Top operated fine with or without AC.

I wonder if AC actually does run through RDM. I am going to bring Tech 2 home from school next weekend and see if AC request shows up as input to RDM, as mentioned in manual.

AC also worked with RDM fuse pulled and Roof circuit breaker pulled but cargo release did not work with either one pulled. So if cargo release works RDM is doing something sometimes.

Sorry I can't help more?
 
#25 ·
I thinks at some point the engineers may have thought the A/C should be off when the top is down. I know that is not the way it works but may have been part of the design and never got corrected in the schematic.
 
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#26 ·
The 05-06 RDM monitors the "AC Request" signal as an input. It does not appear to do anything with that signal. It has no outputs related to AC function. The roof will cycle whether the AC is on or off. It does not turn off the AC during roof operation, nor appear to affect the AC regardless of whether the roof is up or down.

Can't comment on a 03-04 RDM, as I don't have a test subject for clinical trials.....
 
#28 ·
A/C, roof, bed light, and much more goes thru rear fuse box behind passengers seat.

A/C can run or not run during roof operation to the best of my knowledge.

RDM also controls windows.

Bed Release has actuator that goes bad.

See SSR How to Library: https://onedrive.live.com/?id=3EF39D9F5ADCE5E5!853&cid=3EF39D9F5ADCE5E5

Your Roof? Personally I think the cylinders are leaking. Roof cover unlatches and won't open, open manually and see what is happening. Bet floor is wet with oil, every time you push roof button more oil pours out until there is not enough left in system to unlatch roof.

Dicktator
 
#35 ·
Thank you DickTator :liebe011:

The roof went from working perfectly the last time I had driven the R, to simply not doing anything. It would not unlatch, move or make any sounds or attempts to do anything. Simultaneously with this condition the windows failed to operate and the rear cover open only some times.

I will manually open the roof compartment and see what's going on in there. I'm no longer where I keep my sick :silver: Probably won't make it back there for a month or two. I'll keep you guys posted once I get to play with :silver:
 
#36 ·
Sir Ed,

Of course this would be the practical thing to do :eek:_75: I'll most likely end up taking it to the dealer and have them deal with the problem, but where is the fun in that :puzzled:

Ed, I figured it would be fun to play with the Fanatics in resolving this problem. I've certainly gained a good amount of insight into the operation of the RDM while hopefully leaving it all documented for future Fanatics that might run into this problem.

Furthermore my :silver: resides in my vacation home, were I seldom stay over 2 weeks. When I checked with the dealer, the lead time to get the RDM would not give me enough time in town to deal with it.

Alonmgside my fellow Fanatics, I'll try to resolve the issue before sucoming to the dealer, even though it looks there is no scapping that at this point.

Thank you for being such a great contributor to our club:cheer:
 
#30 ·
Sorry for my Absence!

Hello there Fanatics! Sorry for my absence :imsorry:

I got tangled up with work and personal commitments, and could not get back to the forum.

I'll be acknowledging all the good insight you guys have posted lately:liebe011::liebe011::liebe011:
 
#33 ·
The GM Tech 2 scanner can monitor inputs and outputs to/from the RDM module as well as monitor the T-Lat Switches and T-Lat & Cylinder HES voltages. It can also manually actuate a number of operations associated with roof, windows and cargo cover. If you can't make it up to the Tampa area to meet with Dicktator or Ed in FL, then at this point, your best bet would be to go to the GM dealer that you mentioned previously and have them diagnose the RDM. Most OBDII scanners are not going to provide enough insight into what is malfunctioning on your R's RDM.
 
#37 ·
Thank you River_Rat :liebe011:

I was just acknowledging to Ed, that the practical thing for me to do at this point is take the :silver: to the dealer, as you and Ed are suggesting. After I exhaust all the good suggestions I've received from you guys, I will take it to the dealer. Regardless, I'll keep you guys informed of any developments via this Thread.

I travel a lot for work during the summers, so it might be till October before I can deal with the repairs.

I'll make sure to update this Thread with any progress, so this can all be documented here.:lurk
 
#38 ·
Ok guys, had a similar issue with mine today. Tried to get it to close about 5 times, then read this thread, so I took out the fuses, waited a few minutes, reinstalled, got the alarm that the cargo cover was ajar, opened it with the keyfob, opened the tailgate, shut the cargo cover, tried again, and it worked.

One time thing or it's warning me that something is failing?
 
#44 ·
Here is what I have on file:

RDM 03/04 GM 15134308

This part fits the listed vehicles and their options:

Make Model Year Engine Important vehicle option details

Buick Rainier 2004 4 Cyl 2.0L, 4 Cyl 2.8L, 5 Cyl 3.5L, 6 Cyl 3.2L, 6 Cyl 4.2L, 8 Cyl 5.3L, 8 Cyl 6.0L 4 DOOR
Chevrolet Bravada 2003-2004 4 Cyl 2.0L, 4 Cyl 2.8L, 5 Cyl 3.5L, 6 Cyl 3.2L, 6 Cyl 4.2L, 8 Cyl 5.3L, 8 Cyl 6.0L SPORT TRUCK
Chevrolet SSR 2004 4 Cyl 2.0L, 4 Cyl 2.8L, 5 Cyl 3.5L, 6 Cyl 3.2L, 6 Cyl 4.2L, 8 Cyl 5.3L, 8 Cyl 6.0L SPORT TRUCK
Chevrolet TrailBlazer 2003-2004 4 Cyl 2.0L, 4 Cyl 2.8L, 5 Cyl 3.5L, 6 Cyl 3.2L, 6 Cyl 4.2L, 8 Cyl 5.3L, 8 Cyl 6.0L SPORT TRUCK
GMC Bravada 2003-2004 4 Cyl 2.0L, 4 Cyl 2.8L, 5 Cyl 3.5L, 6 Cyl 3.2L, 6 Cyl 4.2L, 8 Cyl 5.3L, 8 Cyl 6.0L 4 DOOR; 4 DOOR EXT; 4 DOOR XUV
GMC Envoy 2003-2004 4 Cyl 2.0L, 4 Cyl 2.8L, 5 Cyl 3.5L, 6 Cyl 3.2L, 6 Cyl 4.2L, 8 Cyl 5.3L, 8 Cyl 6.0L 4 DOOR; 4 DOOR EXT; 4 DOOR XUV
Oldsmobile Bravada 2003-2004 4 Cyl 2.0L, 4 Cyl 2.8L, 5 Cyl 3.5L, 6 Cyl 3.2L, 6 Cyl 4.2L, 8 Cyl 5.3L, 8 Cyl 6.0L 4 DOOR

May have done same with 05/06

Dicktator
 
#45 · (Edited)
FINALLY, I was able to confirm that the 03/04 RDM is the same as 05/06 RDM.

Dimmitt Parts Dept., Paul and I spent a long time doing research and found that even though the part# different, they are the same.

I bought one, yes they are available! Arrived 7/13/17

RDM # 15134308 F-MODULE is on the Box.

RDM # 15828426 is the number for 05 BUT it says also - 04.

Hope this helps, OctagonMan!!

GM did same thing with rear fuse box which GM calls "Rear Block".

Part# 15051963

Thanks to Ed Borland aka ED in Fl who confirmed that the Rear Fuse Box in ALL SSR are the same.

Dicktator

Where is RDM (Roof Door Module)?
In roof compartment in amplifier box, just unplugs no programing needed.
 

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#47 ·
I'd like to extend my Gratitude and Thanks to DickTator and to all other Fanatics who contributed to resolving the problems i was experiencing with the Roof, Windows and rear Hatch.

Following DickTator's guidance, I replaced the 2005 RDM with a 2004, in my 2005, and the Roof, Window and Hatch problems were resolved :grin2:

Please forgive my delayed in updating the thread, but immediately after i got the Roof, Window and Hatch problem resolved, by replacing the RDM, the SSR started having intermittent starting issues. Dragon2U replaced the Fuse Box Wire just to take that out of the equation, as I had not performed that fix, I also replaced the ignition switch and finally the battery. The battery positive cable screw was dirty. I have no idea what really fixed the starting issue, but the R has faithfully started for the last couple of months.

Owning 2 SSR's, a Silver 2005 and a 2006 6SP Pac Blue, I'm quite concern how we are going to move forward with this kind of issues. Every day it gets more difficult to replace an RDM module! My 2005 Silver SSR was down for several months before I figured out with DickTators wisdom, that I could use a 2004 RDM in my 2005. I could not find a 2005 RDM anywhere! The board in the RDM is epoxy coated, so i don't see how a bench technician can diagnose or replace IC chips on this modules. Any thoughts?
 
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