GM Design Chief Doesn't Like Retro Look

[RedTn.SSR]

GM Design Chief & VP, Ed Welburn, is quoted in Jan. 16 AutoWeek magazine as, "I am not a proponent of retro design". "I am more interested in distilling the essence of the 69' Camaro and infusing that into the concept". This was in reference to the concept Camaro presented at the Detroit Auto Show. The retro look has certainly worked well for Ford with the new Mustang and it appears Chrysler has hit a home run with the new Challenger retro look. Some of the comments made at the Detroit Auto Show about the proposed Camaro were: "It looked a lot like a bad hot wheels car", "a bit too much Batman for my taste", and" the best thing GM can do is to start all over. They would do better copying another one of Chysler's cars like they did with the HHR". Typical GM arrogant attitude where they tell the customer what they want rather than listening to the customer and then building what the customer truly wants. Time will tell but here in redneck country, where Chevrolet rules, a lot of the Camaro fans are saying they really, really like the Challenger and would seriously consider jumping ship for one them. General consensus around the Bow Tie crowd is that the concept Camaro is just too modern looking and designed more for the younger urban yuppie crowd than the true muscle car enthusiasts who remember the Camaros of the 60's. I still think Bob Lutz needs to raid the Chrysler design studios and bring some of those fellows over to the GM camp before it's too late for General Motors.

[HotRodGirl]

Sorry to say.....but I tend to agree with this article. Design is lacking! The Challenger does have it from start to finish. This is just my .02 cents worth!

[OP]

I thought the concept camaro looked like a new mustang.

[RaticalSSR]

[Whitewolf]

Originally Posted by RedTn.SSR

GM Design Chief & VP, Ed Welburn, is quoted in Jan. 16 AutoWeek magazine as, "I am not a proponent of retro design". "I am more interested in distilling the essence of the 69' Camaro and infusing that into the concept". This was in reference to the concept Camaro presented at the Detroit Auto Show. The retro look has certainly worked well for Ford with the new Mustang and it appears Chrysler has hit a home run with the new Challenger retro look. Some of the comments made at the Detroit Auto Show about the proposed Camaro were: "It looked a lot like a bad hot wheels car", "a bit too much Batman for my taste", and" the best thing GM can do is to start all over. They would do better copying another one of Chysler's cars like they did with the HHR". Typical GM arrogant attitude where they tell the customer what they want rather than listening to the customer and then building what the customer truly wants. Time will tell but here in redneck country, where Chevrolet rules, a lot of the Camaro fans are saying they really, really like the Challenger and would seriously consider jumping ship for one them. General consensus around the Bow Tie crowd is that the concept Camaro is just too modern looking and designed more for the younger urban yuppie crowd than the true muscle car enthusiasts who remember the Camaros of the 60's. I still think Bob Lutz needs to raid the Chrysler design studios and bring some of those fellows over to the GM camp before it's too late for General Motors.

Amen brother.....the GM hierarchy........JUST DOES'T GET IT.....There to busy trying to tell use (the consumer) what we want.........And down that road they go like a silly bunch of morons........They want to run around in there own little world.....so be it.........They'll be looking for work too.....in a little while....and who would want to hire them with there holy'er than thou attituide..... Sorry i'm in such a bad mood today.......My.............is still hurting....and don't go there!

[Marc NY]

GM Design Chief & VP, Ed Welburn, is quoted in Jan. 16 AutoWeek magazine as, "I am not a proponent of retro design". "I am more interested in distilling the essence of the 69' Camaro and infusing that into the concept". This was in reference to the concept Camaro presented at the Detroit Auto Show.

Perhaps to some the Camaro design might not have hit a grand slam but I still feel it is a strong home run. There are those that think the Camaro should be even more retro looking than it is now but to me I feel it is a super blend of both the old style and newer design and mechanical technologies, I like it ...

Just my .02

[RedTn.SSR]

Marc, The mailman just delivered the Jan. 23 edition of Autoweek magazine. Here's what one reader sent in as a letter: "If the production Dodge Challenger looks as good as your photos, this Chevy man will have a Dodge in his garage. I've seen pictures of the Camaro concept. It looks good, but it doesn't capture the spirit of the original like the new Challenger". GM needs, MUST, have a few grand slams in order to survive. Why play second fiddle to Chrysler? Instead of accepting a design that's okay or pretty good GM needs to innovate and produce vehicles that knocks the customer's socks off! That's what Chrysler has done with the Challenger. GM surely hasn't become so complacent that they are willing to settle for a second or third place finish and be content. Then again, maybe they have and that's the reason their Share of Market continues on a downward spiral.

[Marc NY]

Originally Posted by RedTn.SSR

... The mailman just delivered the Jan. 23 edition of Autoweek magazine. Here's what one reader sent in as a letter: "If the production Dodge Challenger looks as good as your photos, this Chevy man will have a Dodge in his garage. I've seen pictures of the Camaro concept. It looks good, but it doesn't capture the spirit of the original like the new Challenger".

To me the challenger looks too much like the original. To make the Camaro look almost exactly like the original version is not what I believe GM should do. By tweeking the interior and few other minor items that concept vehicle would be a true HOT seller in my book.

[Ricochet]

I think the concept is a great start. It does need more work to bring it more in line wth the late 60s design influence but without being over retro. I think however people EXPECT a retro influenced Camaro a car that has a lot of Heritage in it. This is the big mistake they made with the C6 generation Corvette. There are "hints" of Corvettes of the past but these hints are far to blurred to mean much. Its indeed important to move the car forward but not without its rich heritage and past being a very large influence.

[artsmart]

Originally Posted by OP

I thought the concept camaro looked like a new mustang.

[KySSR]

If it came down to a choice between the Challenger and the Camaro, the Challenger would win ,hands down...Just my 2 cents

[hawaiinfun]

At The Concept Presentation It Was Said That The Head Of The Design Team Used His '69 As The Back Drop For The Concept.i Can See Some Aspects Of '69 In It But They Need To Go And Get Rid Of The Big Pointed Nose.tone It Down.drop The Mustang Look From The Side Cove.return To The Tri Tailites As On The Original.just Some Thoughts Since I Have Always Been A Camaro Fan Having Owned 3 Of Them.wish They Would Let Some Of Us Here Go In To The Studio And Explain What We Want.the Mustang And The Challenger Hit Just Right.

[Scott 0168]

Originally Posted by Marc NY

To me the challenger looks too much like the original. To make the Camaro look almost exactly like the original version is not what I believe GM should do. By tweeking the interior and few other minor items that concept vehicle would be a true HOT seller in my book.

I have to agree with Marc. I don't want something that looks like a cookie cutter of the original. Leave the 60's alone.

Scott 0168

[Nancy24]

on my first look at it - I thought I was looking at a mustang with a longer nose - I think GM could have done better

[big-daddy]

I'm an old Camaro guy, so people like me have preconcieved expectations of how these cars should look. However, I've noticed that my son, age 25, and his friends instantly love the new Challenger, but the Camaro concept falls flat. Maybe its not a big deal, but Chevy needs to try and grab a new generation, like they did with us in the 60's. ( but yeah, I'll buy an 09 SS Camaro when they build it)
my .02

[dohyatt]

have owned gm all my life but a challenger might be in my future as for the camaro Sorry gm you missed the whole idea

[Furykay]

IT was 1957 when I bought my last Chrysler Product. (57 Fury) and I still have one ,after seeing the new Dodge Challenger , I am going to put it on my next want list. Will keep SSR but trade in a 05 Envoy (8,000 miles) or 03 Ford 150 Super Charged Harley Davidson (9,000 miles) ,Which One Should I TRADE??

[RedTn.SSR]

Marc, When you look at the responses on this thread it really makes you question just how HOT the proposed Camaro is. Most of the people on this site own SSR's and are GM/Chevy enthusiasts. When these owners let their feelings known that the proposed design is lukewarm, and some true, diehard lifetime GM buyers are considering the purchase of a new Challenger, rather than the Camaro, it should get someones attention at the General's HQ. The people are speaking once again and once again it's falling on deaf ears at GM. As an owner of over 40 new GM vehicles since 1963 I'm just sick and tired of getting sand kicked in my face. It's frustrating to watch a once superior design studio crank out some of the stuff they've been producing, can you say Pontiac Aztec! The SSR has been the only GM design homerun in recent years. Where are the Harley Earl or William Mitchell types when GM really needs them? GM needs to listen to buyers not their own internal "yes men". Okay, I'm through venting for now. However,that Challenger really is a knock out!

[QWKSSR]

[QUOTE=RedTn.SSR]Marc, The mailman just delivered the Jan. 23 edition of Autoweek magazine. Here's what one reader sent in as a letter: "If the production Dodge Challenger looks as good as your photos, this Chevy man will have a Dodge in his garage.



I have a 69 Camaro SS 396 car and would love to see GM build a Camaro that looks like a Camaro like Dodge is doing with the Challenger. If Dodge builds the Challenger i'll probably buy one.

[Whitewolf]

Originally Posted by RedTn.SSR

Marc, When you look at the responses on this thread it really makes you question just how HOT the proposed Camaro is. Most of the people on this site own SSR's and are GM/Chevy enthusiasts. When these owners let their feelings known that the proposed design is lukewarm, and some true, diehard lifetime GM buyers are considering the purchase of a new Challenger, rather than the Camaro, it should get someones attention at the General's HQ. The people are speaking once again and once again it's falling on deaf ears at GM. As an owner of over 40 new GM vehicles since 1963 I'm just sick and tired of getting sand kicked in my face. It's frustrating to watch a once superior design studio crank out some of the stuff they've been producing, can you say Pontiac Aztec! The SSR has been the only GM design homerun in recent years. Where are the Harley Earl or William Mitchell types when GM really needs them? GM needs to listen to buyers not their own internal "yes men". Okay, I'm through venting for now. However,that Challenger really is a knock out!

******** The consumming public will soon get to vote..........They will vote with their DOLLARS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now which companies stock do I want to own........One guess........

[HotRodGirl]

Since attending the Detroit Auto Show and seeing the Camaro and Challenger up close. I would have to say now that the Camaro does have much more personality then the Challenger. It real does show well

[Scott 0168]

Thankyou I agree. Why would you want to own a new 60's car that looks that looks like a 60's car? Does this make since, probably not!

[Whitewolf]

Originally Posted by Scott 0168

Thankyou I agree. Why would you want to own a new 60's car that looks that looks like a 60's car? Does this make since, probably not!

********It Does Make Since!!!!!!
It seems like a lot of people were voting with there pocketbooks at the Barrett Jackson .........the 60s and some early 70s were where the interest was and the big bucks.......Whether....it was Mustangs .....Cudas.....or Camaros and ect......It was these years that captured the moment...the excitement and over all interest.and the big money.....and the Vettes were there to.......here again the 60s and 70s were the hot item and they were the winners.....nuff said
.

[Flassh]

Keep in mind the Challenger is production intent, and the Mustang is in production. The Camaro is a concept only, and could change significantly before reaching production.

Hopefully the comments will have GM looking at how to fine tune the Camaro more to the consumer's liking. Personally, I think the Challenger is too faithful to the original and is a bit boring, whereas the Mustang is a home run, and the new Shelby 500 is a grand slam.

I really like the Camaro concept, but if they toned down the nose a bit it would look great. With the new engines coming out of Detroit, we may be headed for a new and exciting muscle era.

I was watching some Camaros go across the block at BJ, and the one thing I did note that I had forgotten about was the square gauges from the late 60s. So on one hand, some Fanatics are slamming GM for not being true to the original, but when they do the concept with square gauges that are true to the original, they get slammed for that too.

Ray

[HotRodGirl]

They say that everyting always makes it's way back like the troll dolls, clog shoes, bell bottom pants..etc. While this is good, I'm not so sure it is good in the automobile industry.
The SSR is a good example of this.Yes, they took the look of a 1947 pick-up truck but didn't bring it back just like it. I love it when I've been asked who makes,what year is it that and did you have it custom made. I'm not so sure I would want to be driving around in something that looks like I restored but yet it's a newer model as in the case of the Challenger. I do like the looks of both. But you may want to go and buy and older Challenger and restore it......value would be larger. Just my .02 cents worth!

[Whitewolf]

Originally Posted by hotrodgirl

They say that everyting always makes it's way back like the troll dolls, clog shoes, bell bottom pants..etc. While this is good, I'm not so sure it is good in the automobile industry.
The SSR is a good example of this.Yes, they took the look of a 1947 pick-up truck but didn't bring it back just like it. I love it when I've been asked who makes,what year is it that and did you have it custom made. I'm not so sure I would want to be driving around in something that looks like I restored but yet it's a newer model as in the case of the Challenger. I do like the looks of both. But you may want to go and buy and older Challenger and restore it......value would be larger. Just my .02 cents worth!

Might be so, Deb.......But not everybody can aford to buy a "Restored" one. or spend the great amount of money to do it!!!!!......would you like to pay $100,000.00 and up to own your SSR......Think about it........

[Flassh]

Re: Hotrodgirl's comment about looking just like the original - I totally agree with her.

How many SSRs would have been sold, and how much enthusiasm would there be for it if it looked just like the 53 - tall, boxy, fixed roof and all. GM would have been hammered for its lack of imagination, and for being out of step with the marketplace.

So, they do a new Camaro with styling themes from the original and some imagination (just like they did with the SSR) and they get hammered for being out of step with the marketplace because they didn't build it exactly like the original.

It must be fun being a GM stylist and constantly being second guessed.

Ray

[RedTn.SSR]

Flassh, It must be even more fun to watch customers stay away from your dealerships in droves and watch your stock drop over half in price in a year and watch your share of market drop from a high of 47% in the 70's, to 29% in 2000, and to 25% in 2005. Yeah, these GM designers sure are designing what the buying public wants!

[Donnysan]

Originally Posted by QWKSSR

I have a 69 Camaro SS 396 car....

I got a sixty-nine Chevy with a 396,
Fuelie heads and a hurst on the floor
She's waiting tonight down in the parking lot
outside the 7-11 store
Me and my partner Sonny built her straight out of scratch
And he rides with me from town to town
We only run for the money got no strings attached
We shut 'em up and then we shut 'em down
Tonight, tonight, the strip's just right
I wanna blow 'em off in my first heat
Summer's here and the time is right
For racing in the street

[Donnysan]

The 72 Challenger and the concept, The 60 Camaro Z-28 and the concept