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Old 01-23-2008, 12:12 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Tahoe has check engine light

Got these codes from Auto Zone
First one I figured would come up was
P0171 (probably the O2 sensor)
P0174 (maybe the MAF sensor or Fuel injector)
Now to figure out if one would cause the other and which one to fix first
any suggestions?
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I'd lean towards O2 sensor as the cause. (puns not intended)
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'd lean towards O2 sensor as the cause. (puns not intended)
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Old 01-23-2008, 12:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Someone tell Art he is not funny I know we have changed those before but I have never had the engine run rough with it. Can some one tell me how will I know which Sensor and how many are there? I thought there were just 2
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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02 sensor

I have that vehicle- 02 sensor famous for going out- I think it has three- replace them all- even though one is hard to get at.
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Ok, didn't think it had that many I will check it out! Thanks
Anyone have a part #?
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Old 01-23-2008, 01:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Auto zone website says 2 sensors required ???? Does that mean there are only 2
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Old 01-23-2008, 02:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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what year Tahoe do you have? some have 3 and some have 4 sensors. replacing sensors is like throwing darts at a dart board, you hope you hit something. there are so many things that can set these codes, like fuel pressure,MAP sensor,MAF sensor.
The only true way to tell what is going on is to monitor the fuel trims with a scanner
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:48 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Found this over at the GM-Trucks.com board

Document ID# 1899786
2004 Chevrolet Chevy K Silverado - 4WD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Cold Engine Idle Misfire Or DTCs P0171 P0174 - keywords 4.8 5.3 6.0 air cold crack hesitate idle intermittent internal intake leak lean misfire miss P0171 P0174 P0300 power rough surge vacuum #PIP3232B - (02/07/2007)

Models: 2002-2005 Cadillac Escalade
1999-2005 Chevrolet Avalanche, Express, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, Trailblazer
1999-2005 GMC Savana, Sierra, Yukon
2003-2005 Hummer H2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This PI was superseded to update parts information. Please discard PIP3232A.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
99 through 05 GEN III truck engines may experience any of the following:

A cold rough idle that diminishes as the engine warms up.
Possible DTCS P0171, P0174, or P0300.
Random misfires at idle.
Recommendation/Instructions:
The intake gasket seals may be leaking around the intake ports, causing a lean condition. The intake gasket seals may leak around the bottom side of the port, making it a challenge to detect the vacuum leak. The technician may also notice lower than normal MAF readings if the intake seals are leaking.

If leaking intake gasket seals are found, replace the intake gaskets. During the repair be sure to use the current GMSPO part number for replacement intake gaskets. The current GMSPO part number for intake gaskets will have a teal green intake gasket seal. The old version of the intake gaskets were orange in color. Use only the teal green colored gaskets for a repair.
The intake plenum should also be checked for excessive warpage that may cause an uneven clamping pressure of the seal. If the plenum is found to be warped it will need to be replaced. Service Information states, "An intake manifold with warpage in excess of 3 mm (0.118 in) over a 200 mm (7.87 in) area should be replaced". Intake warpage is measured at the gasket sealing surfaces, and should be measured within a 200 mm (7.87 in) area. This measurement is across only two of the intake runner port openings. Measurements taken across the entire distance of all four intake runner ports will lead to unnecessary manifold replacements.
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
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Old 01-23-2008, 04:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Some other posts indicate those fault codes state that both left and right cylinder banks are running lean. Wingrider, would a failed pressure regulator cause this? I know they're notorious for failing on the new gen III engines (mine did once already, and the local dealer raped me on the replacement! ).

I also found some other posts that said cleaning the throttle body fixed it. I really doubt that a dirty TB would cause a lean condition though.
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Old 01-23-2008, 05:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssr71 View Post
Document ID# 1899786
2004 Chevrolet Chevy K Silverado - 4WD
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Cold Engine Idle Misfire Or DTCs P0171 P0174 - keywords 4.8 5.3 6.0 air cold crack hesitate idle intermittent internal intake leak lean misfire miss P0171 P0174 P0300 power rough surge vacuum #PIP3232B - (02/07/2007)

Models: 2002-2005 Cadillac Escalade
1999-2005 Chevrolet Avalanche, Express, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, Trailblazer
1999-2005 GMC Savana, Sierra, Yukon
2003-2005 Hummer H2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This PI was superseded to update parts information. Please discard PIP3232A.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
99 through 05 GEN III truck engines may experience any of the following:

A cold rough idle that diminishes as the engine warms up.
Possible DTCS P0171, P0174, or P0300.
Random misfires at idle.
Recommendation/Instructions:
The intake gasket seals may be leaking around the intake ports, causing a lean condition. The intake gasket seals may leak around the bottom side of the port, making it a challenge to detect the vacuum leak. The technician may also notice lower than normal MAF readings if the intake seals are leaking.

If leaking intake gasket seals are found, replace the intake gaskets. During the repair be sure to use the current GMSPO part number for replacement intake gaskets. The current GMSPO part number for intake gaskets will have a teal green intake gasket seal. The old version of the intake gaskets were orange in color. Use only the teal green colored gaskets for a repair.
The intake plenum should also be checked for excessive warpage that may cause an uneven clamping pressure of the seal. If the plenum is found to be warped it will need to be replaced. Service Information states, "An intake manifold with warpage in excess of 3 mm (0.118 in) over a 200 mm (7.87 in) area should be replaced". Intake warpage is measured at the gasket sealing surfaces, and should be measured within a 200 mm (7.87 in) area. This measurement is across only two of the intake runner port openings. Measurements taken across the entire distance of all four intake runner ports will lead to unnecessary manifold replacements.
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
Thanks for posting as my 99 Tahoe has had the check engine light come on a couple of times only to be told it was a lean misfire. This happens mostly when I'm in the Denver area visiting the inlaws.
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Mine is an 03 Wingrider and Kevin, the Tahoe does run rough, surgeing at cold temps, when I first start it in the mornings, colder than normal here. But by the time I get Nick to school 20 -40 minutes later it is running fine but the check engine light is still on.

These O2 sensors aren't cheap and I don't wan to replace one or more if I don't have to Thanks for the info Kevin!
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat66 View Post
Mine is an 03 Wingrider and Kevin, the Tahoe does run rough, surgeing at cold temps, when I first start it in the mornings, colder than normal here. But by the time I get Nick to school 20 -40 minutes later it is running fine but the check engine light is still on.

These O2 sensors aren't cheap and I don't wan to replace one or more if I don't have to Thanks for the info Kevin!
Well, surging can be caused by a dirty throttle body (I had that problem), but again, I still don't think it could be capable of causing a lean condition. If this document describes your symptoms pretty much to a T, then I'd say that's your solution. Those gaskets and the labor to replace them shouldn't be too bad at all - definitely less than the cost of those new O2 sensors (and there are 4 of them on the Gen III engines)!

I guess I've been lucky so far. I just turned 100k on my truck and have had few issues to report with it (and I beat the snot out of it at times! ). Not bad for a first year of a new model release!
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:27 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I will look for a good mechanic and see what they tell me too! I guess I have been lucky to owned it 3 years and this is only the second thing to have to fix
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:33 PM   #15 (permalink)
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If you have both a p0171 and p0174 that is a lean on both banks, then the first thing I always look for is a plugged fuel filter causing low fuel pressure. you have to look at why is are both banks
running lean and not just one. I can't count how many times I have seen the fuel filter cause this. It's possible
to have a bad fuel pump but I don't think so, If you had a bad fuel pressure regulator you usually have a rich condition as the regulator would leak and add fuel.
the bulletin for leaking intake gaskets is very rare but it can happen, I have only seen that happen 3 or 4 times over the years.
Not that it will help you any but here is the diagnostic flow chart for your codes



Document ID# 743995
2003 Chevrolet Tahoe - 2WD


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DTC P0171 or P0174
Circuit Description
The powertrain control module (PCM) controls the air/fuel metering system in order to provide the best possible combination of driveability, fuel economy, and emission control. Fuel delivery is controlled differently during Open and Closed Loop. During Open Loop, the PCM determines fuel delivery based on sensor signals without oxygen sensor (O2S) input. During Closed Loop, the O2S inputs are added and used by the PCM to calculate short and long term fuel trim fuel delivery adjustments. If the O2S indicate a lean condition, fuel trim values will be above 0 percent. If the O2S indicate a rich condition, fuel trim values will be below 0 percent. Short term fuel trim values change rapidly in response to the heated oxygen sensor (HO2S) voltage signals. Long term fuel trim makes coarse adjustments in order to maintain an air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1. If the PCM detects an excessively lean condition, DTC P0171 or P0174 sets.

Conditions for Running the DTC
• DTCs P0101, P0103, P0108, P0135, P0137, P0141, P0200, P0300, P0410, P0420, P0430, P0440, P0442, P0443, P0446, P0449, P0506, P0507 or P1441 are not set.

• The engine coolant temperature (ECT) is between 75-115C (167-239F).

• The intake air temperature (IAT) is between -20 to +90C (4-194F).

• The manifold absolute pressure (MAP) is between 26-90 kPa (3.7-13 psi).

• The vehicle speed is less than 137 km/h (85 mph).

• The engine speed is between 400-3,000 RPM.

• The barometric pressure (BARO) is more than 74 kPa (10.7 psi).

• The mass airflow (MAF) is between 5-90 g/s.

• The fuel level is more than 10 percent.

• The throttle position (TP) is less than 90 percent.

.

Conditions for Setting the DTC
• The average long term fuel trim cell value is above 23 percent.

• All of the above conditions are present for 6 seconds.

Action Taken When the DTC Sets
The control module illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) on the second consecutive ignition cycle that the diagnostic runs and fails.
The control module records the operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. The first time the diagnostic fails, the control module stores this information in the Failure Records. If the diagnostic reports a failure on the second consecutive ignition cycle, the control module records the operating conditions at the time of the failure. The control module writes the operating conditions to the Freeze Frame and updates the Failure Records.
Conditions for Clearing the MIL/DTC
• The control module turns OFF the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) after 3 consecutive ignition cycles that the diagnostic runs and does not fail.

• A current DTC, Last Test Failed, clears when the diagnostic runs and passes.

• A history DTC clears after 40 consecutive warm-up cycles, if no failures are reported by this or any other emission related diagnostic.

• Clear the MIL and the DTC with a scan tool.

Diagnostic Aids
• The system will go lean if an injector is not suppling enough fuel.

• A lean condition could be present during high fuel demand.

• Use a scan tool in order to review the Failure Records . If an intermittent condition is suspected, refer to Intermittent Conditions .

Test Description
The numbers below refer to the step numbers on the diagnostic table.

If conditions were not corrected, refer to Fuel System Diagnosis for a possible fuel problem.

If conditions were not corrected, a worn cam, worn intake or exhaust valves, or other engine mechanical failure may be the problem.

Step
Action
Values
Yes
No

1
Did you perform the Diagnostic System Check-Engine Controls?
--
Go to Step 2
Go to Diagnostic System Check - Engine Controls

2
Important: If any DTCs other than P0171 or P0174 are set, refer to those DTCs before continuing


Install the scan tool.
Start and idle the engine at the normal operating temperature in Closed Loop.
Record the long term fuel trim.
Turn OFF the engine.
Turn ON ignition, with engine OFF.
Review the Freeze Frame/Failure Records and record the displayed data for this DTC.
Does the scan tool indicate that the long term fuel trim is greater than the specified value?
23%
Go to Step 3
Go to Diagnostic Aids

3
Operate engine at idle.
Observe the HO2S parameters with a scan tool.
Does the scan tool indicate that the parameter is within the specified range and fluctuating?
200 -800 mV
Go to Step 4
Go to Step 5

4
Turn OFF the engine.
Visually and physically inspect the following items:
- The vacuum hoses for splits, kinks, and proper connections. Refer to. Emission Hose Routing Diagram

- Ensure that the vehicle has sufficient fuel in tank. If fuel pressure is too low this DTC may set. Refer to. Fuel System Diagnosis

- Fuel contamination--Refer to Alcohol/Contaminants-in-Fuel Diagnosis

Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 7
Go to Step 6

5
Turn OFF the engine.
Inspect the HO2S for proper installation.
Verify the electrical connectors and the wires are secure, and not contacting the exhaust system.
Test for continuity between the HO2S signal circuit and the low reference circuit. Refer to Circuit Testing and Wiring Repairs in Wiring Systems.
Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 7
Go to Fuel System Diagnosis

6
Operate the engine at idle.
Inspect for any missing, loose, or leaking exhaust components forward of the HO2S.
Inspect for vacuum leaks at the intake manifold, throttle body, and injector O-rings.
Inspect the air induction system and the air intake ducts for leaks.
Inspect the secondary air injection (AIR) system for leaks, improper air delivery, and for the shut-off valves not closing.
Inspect the crankcase ventilation system for leaks. Refer to Crankcase Ventilation System Inspection/Diagnosis in Engine Mechanical.
Did you find and correct the condition?
--
Go to Step 7
Go to Symptoms - Engine Mechanical in Engine Mechanical

7
Important: After repairs, use the scan tool Fuel Trim Reset function in order to reset the Long Term Fuel Trim.


Clear the DTCs with a scan tool.
Turn OFF the ignition for 30 seconds.
Start the engine.
Operate the vehicle within the Conditions for Running the DTC. You may also operate the vehicle within the conditions that you observed from the Freeze Frame/Failure Records.
Did the DTC fail this ignition?
--
Go to Step 2
Go to Step 8

8
Observe the Capture Info with a scan tool.

Are there any DTCs that have not been diagnosed?
--
Go to Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) List
System OK



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Document ID# 743995
2003 Chevrolet Tahoe - 2WD
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Last edited by wingrider; 01-23-2008 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I am passing this info onto my hubby and he will handle it from here He says the fuel filter is cheaper and easiest to do first
We have had a fuel pump go out on the 97 PU we had, never noticed any hesitation of any kind, it just quit!

I will let ya know. Thanks for all your help!
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:50 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcat66 View Post
I am passing this info onto my hubby and he will handle it from here He says the fuel filter is cheaper and easiest to do first
We have had a fuel pump go out on the 97 PU we had, never noticed any hesitation of any kind, it just quit!

I will let ya know. Thanks for all your help!
Not that I want to buy it, but did you sell the motorcycle that you had listed on Craig's List?

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Old 01-24-2008, 08:23 AM   #18 (permalink)
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We have had a fuel pump go out on the 97 PU we had, never noticed any hesitation of any kind, it just quit!
I just heard an interesting thing about fuel pumps yesterday. A mechanic told me that some vehicles will kill the fuel pump when the oil is low.....he said a lot of people wound up replacing the fuel pump, when the really only needed to add oil
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Old 01-24-2008, 08:26 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Weird but I just had the oil changed
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