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post #31 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-08-2011, 08:14 PM
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I hope they work as good as they look.
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post #32 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-08-2011, 09:33 PM
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So I broke out the scale and did some weighing of parts. The Z06 clutch:
25.7# -- Flywheel
23.6# -- Pressure Plate
6.8# -- Disc
==========
56.1# -- Total

Really close the the 57# you mentioned.
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post #33 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-08-2011, 09:47 PM
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The replaceable friction surface, are those screws into the aluminum, steel inserts, or nuts on the other side?

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post #34 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-08-2011, 11:06 PM
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You have me thinking know, I have 3 LS9 clutches and one LS7 sitting on a shelf. Might have to sell them if they work well
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post #35 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-09-2011, 08:59 AM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
05 6 sp. with 4.56 gears, ZR1 clutch, Edelbrock intake, Lunati cam, Crane rockers, C6 modified pan
Hdfl, I just weighed the stock p. plate and it weighs exactly the same as the LS7, which leads to the question of is it the same unit with just a different disc?! I've seen some pictures only, but they sure look VERY similar. My original looks to have a printed part# on it - how about your LS7? There's also a stamped # inside one of the adjusting spring pockets.

Bruce, they're brass machine screws with washers and nuts on them.

Turboman, that's some serious inventory you've got!! You could probably broom it here if you wanted to.

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post #36 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-09-2011, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspin View Post
Hdfl, I just weighed the stock p. plate and it weighs exactly the same as the LS7, which leads to the question of is it the same unit with just a different disc?! I've seen some pictures only, but they sure look VERY similar. My original looks to have a printed part# on it - how about your LS7? There's also a stamped # inside one of the adjusting spring pockets.

Bruce, they're brass machine screws with washers and nuts on them.

Turboman, that's some serious inventory you've got!! You could probably broom it here if you wanted to.
I'll take a look tonight at the numbers. Won't have the 'old' one out for awhile though for comparison.
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post #37 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-09-2011, 05:17 PM
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Bruce, they're brass machine screws with washers and nuts on them.
Excellent, I've had mixed results with dissimilar metal screws into aluminum.

Often wrong...... but never in doubt.
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post #38 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-09-2011, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
Excellent, I've had mixed results with dissimilar metal screws into aluminum.
Steel (either carbon/tool or CRES - stainless) will create a galvanic couple on aluminum and start the corrosion process unless there are coatings applied such that there is no metal to metal contact.
The brass does not have the same issue in aluminum.
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post #39 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-09-2011, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspin View Post
Hdfl, I just weighed the stock p. plate and it weighs exactly the same as the LS7, which leads to the question of is it the same unit with just a different disc?! I've seen some pictures only, but they sure look VERY similar. My original looks to have a printed part# on it - how about your LS7? There's also a stamped # inside one of the adjusting spring pockets.

Bruce, they're brass machine screws with washers and nuts on them.

Turboman, that's some serious inventory you've got!! You could probably broom it here if you wanted to.
Here you go..
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post #40 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-10-2011, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the pics., but the #s really don't mean much except that there's a date code incorporated within them. It looks like yours was built Sept. 10th 2010. I talked to Tech Support at Luk today and didn't get much info, though he's supposed to go to engineering with my questions. Whether that will ever really happen remains to be seen. One interesting thing he said was that GM tried the dual mass setup in the C6 Vette, but it slowed it down 2 tenths in the 1/4 mile, so they declined to go that route.

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post #41 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-10-2011, 06:52 PM
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.... One interesting thing he said was that GM tried the dual mass setup in the C6 Vette, but it slowed it down 2 tenths in the 1/4 mile, so they declined to go that route.
Not surprised. Not clear on the physics of it but it seems to me the synchros in the trans have a tough job already. With the spring loaded center of the flywheel I bet the is a variation when it move and it affects how quick the synchros set the next gear to the right speed thereby affecting how quick one can shift gears.
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post #42 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-11-2011, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspin View Post
Hdfl, I just weighed the stock p. plate and it weighs exactly the same as the LS7, which leads to the question of is it the same unit with just a different disc?! I've seen some pictures only, but they sure look VERY similar. My original looks to have a printed part# on it - how about your LS7? There's also a stamped # inside one of the adjusting spring pockets.

Bruce, they're brass machine screws with washers and nuts on them.

Turboman, that's some serious inventory you've got!! You could probably broom it here if you wanted to.
Well when you own a large LS engine business and the GM accessory distributorship for CA,AZ,NV,Hawaii,Alaska you would be surprised what I have hanging around. I use to have a ton of GM SSR accessories but am down to a few
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post #43 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-26-2011, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
05 6 sp. with 4.56 gears, ZR1 clutch, Edelbrock intake, Lunati cam, Crane rockers, C6 modified pan
Finishing up the remote bleeder and slave line tonight. It worked out OK with a little grinding and fitting. The bleeder line now routes through the original opening for the stock slave supply line. The new slave supply line routes through another hole already present in the b. housing, though it was enlarged for clearance. I will heavily insulate both lines, though there is significant clearance now with the Kooks headers installed. Stock exhaust is way worse for heat soaking the feed line. The ZR1 slave I'm using has the exact same dimensions as the stock R slave, but offers increased "bind" clearance that the stock slave didn't have. That's because of the new clutch installed height. The stock slave is definitely part of the stock clutch problem. It is basically slightly over length for the setup and mine measured .020" clutch preload, when removed. It should have at least .075" bind clearance!
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post #44 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-27-2011, 10:49 AM
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Great Thread...THX Topspin

This is a great thread for us "three pedal" owners

One of the "Blues Brothers"

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post #45 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-27-2011, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
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Hey you're Welcome Jim, I too enjoyed bench racing yesterday! Good Luck with the Blazer!

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post #46 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 04:18 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
05 6 sp. with 4.56 gears, ZR1 clutch, Edelbrock intake, Lunati cam, Crane rockers, C6 modified pan
To end up with a successful clutch installation, there's some checking that really needs to be done. After measuring my stock setup, upon disassembly, I could see why some have issues and others don't. My stock slave was bottomed out with .020" preload. Evidently not enough to cause problems yet but certainly borderline.
The three important dimensions are shown below. Photo 1 is the distance from the bell housing face to the clutch fingers. Photo 2 is the distance from bellhousing face to the throwout bearing contact surface. And photo 3 is the slave cylinder fully compressed. Now some simple subtraction gives us some critical information. I started with the slave and measured it's free length and it's fully compressed length. For the ZR1 slave the difference was .950". I then subtracted that from the measurement I took in photo 2 to get the compressed distance relative to the bellhousing face. Of course, you could with help compress the bearing attached to the housing and get the measurement, but it's much harder to do that way and the accuracy could be compromised. What I came up with was 1.575" for the compressed bearing distance. My measurement in photo 1 was 1.660" to the finger tips. So, finally subtracting 1.575 from that left me .085" of travel before the bearing bottomed out. That's a good place to be as .065" - .125" is the desired range. I'm hoping someone will take the time to check the LS7 clutch setup, that some are going to, and verify that the clearance is OK. As I mentioned my stock setup was positive .020" instead of negative .065" minimum. That positive number meant it was starting to take holding pressure away from the clutch, as the fingers couldn't fully release!
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post #47 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 04:28 PM
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Topspin, do you think your stock setup was the result of manufacturing tolerances all going one way? I guess there's no way of knowing for sure, with a sample of one, but do you have a gut feeling on it?

Often wrong...... but never in doubt.
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post #48 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-28-2011, 05:13 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
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Well Bruce, since you asked, I'll give you my pretty much uneducated (my Daughter is the smart one in the family - PHD in micro biology in one more month ) best guess. I believe the slave ( though it may well be improperly sized for the clutch used ) and housings, both trans. and bellhousing are very consistent. The stock dual mass flywheel should also be consistent, at least when new, but can develop slop over time. Now to my way of thinking, the self adjusting Luk pressure plate is the biggest variable. I don't have a great understanding of how it works and am too busy at the moment to delve into it. But, sooner or later I'm going to set it up in a press and try to figure out why some have major issues with it. It's the exact same design as the LS7 so the info could be useful. I don't really think that tolerance stacking is the issue here. I believe if production had continued another few years a slave or clutch change would have been made.

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post #49 of 100 (permalink) Old 03-29-2011, 10:01 AM
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OK, thanks.
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post #50 of 100 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
05 6 sp. with 4.56 gears, ZR1 clutch, Edelbrock intake, Lunati cam, Crane rockers, C6 modified pan
Got the last clutch part done and installed tonight. It's a simple bracket / shield for the slave pressure line. It attaches to the last header bolt and keeps the line away from the last primary tube. Bled the clutch and the remote bleeder worked very well! The pedal feel is great and is high where I like it, though I haven't tested it under power yet. Just need to insulate the power steering lines and hang the exhaust now.
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post #51 of 100 (permalink) Old 04-08-2011, 08:08 PM
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Cool! I can't wait to hear how you like it. I hope you have some top down weather to test it out!


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post #52 of 100 (permalink) Old 04-19-2011, 08:37 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
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Hey Anne, finally did get it out the door for an easy test drive and all my concerns were allayed. My worries were, would it release clean, would the pedal release height be where I like it, and would it be noisy? Overall I'm extremely happy with the outcome! It releases very clean with minimal travel. I was concerned that the dual discs would need longer pedal travel to release - not the case at all. They have fine tuned the lever ratio such, that it takes no more range of pedal motion than the stock unit did. The release point is maybe slightly higher than the stocker, which is what I was after. The problem was you only get one shot at it, with slave positioning, inside the bellhousing. In the old days a linkage adjustment was an easy cure, whereas today you live with what you have unless you open up the b. housing and shim the slave cylinder. I guess my biggest concern was the noisy reputation the multi disc clutches have. This clutch is well designed though, with a mounted, not free floating, floater disc. It is both smooth and noise free! Because of the considerably lower rotating mass it demands a few hundred more rpm to start, but man does it accelerate hard! It feels like 50 more rear wheel hp. I haven't hammered it yet, as it needs a few hundred miles to seat the dual discs. The least of my concerns was whether it would handle the hp I have, as it's been used in very high hp applications. It's certainly not a cheap fix, but definitely a viable one for the SSR.

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post #53 of 100 (permalink) Old 04-20-2011, 05:49 AM
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Great news Ken!!!

I can't wait til you can romp on it!!!

Tell me more about the travel... do you have to push it to the floor to have it engage? Is it any stiffer than stock? I can't wait to hear how it performs during spirited acceleration... and the total cost for parts...

Thanks for being the one to try something different. My chicken bone wouldn't let me.


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post #54 of 100 (permalink) Old 04-20-2011, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
05 6 sp. with 4.56 gears, ZR1 clutch, Edelbrock intake, Lunati cam, Crane rockers, C6 modified pan
No worries Anne, the clutch pressure feels very close to stock - possibly even less than stock. Well, that's real precise, huh? So, I just went in and grabbed the dreaded bathroom scale. Using an 18" length of 4x4 as an extension between the clutch pedal and the scale, I came up with about 46 or 47# to depress the clutch. Now, if you'll check your stocker down yonder we can compare. Sorry, I wasn't smart enough to check my old one first! I was after a release point high in the travel, for quick shifting, and that's what I ended up with. When the clutch pedal is depressed even with the dead pedal, the clutch is completely released. Any further movement beyond that point is wasted motion. I may build an adjustable pedal stop that only allows so much downward pedal travel. That helps for power shifting and also keeps you from over flexing the clutch fingers. It would also be nice for long periods of stop and go traffic, to have in effect, another dead pedal to push against. Yep, I'm a little anxious to "romp" on it myself!

Oh Yeah, the cost! Being an old drag racer, I tend to basically ignore the incidentals. The main clutch package, clutch, flywheel, ZR1 slave, pilot bushing, and new factory bolts was $1449 delivered from RPM Transmissions - a special pkg. price. The only other thing I added was a remote bleeder kit for around $75.

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post #55 of 100 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 06:10 PM
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Well Ken, I went out in the driveway with my bathroom scale this afternoon...

The only conclusion I can give you for this experiment is that - I don't think I have the upper body strength to push the scale down smoothly enough to get an accurate reading! Maybe someone else can do this or it will have to wait til Robert comes by. I got 2 readings of 9 lbs. and then couldn't press it down after that. It was rather funny though.


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post #56 of 100 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
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Awww, I was just messin with ya Ann to see if you'd try something that crazy??!! Now seriously, if you have an old boot, a shoelace, and a fish scale .....

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post #57 of 100 (permalink) Old 04-25-2011, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
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Ann, I did do that test for future reference. Also, I drove mine a bunch this weekend and am convinced there is little, if any, increase in pedal pressure and definitely less pedal movement needed. I find myself over depressing the pedal from old muscle memory. It is a very nice smooth setup! I hope you had your ride in neutral with the parking brake on, while working with it in your driveway!! Thanks for the try!!

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post #58 of 100 (permalink) Old 04-26-2011, 02:55 PM
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Awww, I was just messin with ya Ann to see if you'd try something that crazy??!! Now seriously, if you have an old boot, a shoelace, and a fish scale .....





Ready!


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post #59 of 100 (permalink) Old 04-27-2011, 06:09 AM
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post #60 of 100 (permalink) Old 06-25-2011, 09:12 AM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
05 6 sp. with 4.56 gears, ZR1 clutch, Edelbrock intake, Lunati cam, Crane rockers, C6 modified pan
Alright Anne, I can finally give you the " romp report ". I was out at a street cruise last night and gave it some abuse. I've had the rev limiter bumped to 6800 rpm, and my shift light is set at 6600, which is where I was shifting. It shifts as clean as any race clutch that I've ever driven and has dead solid lock up! To me it was time and money very well spent! I've got about a 1000 miles on it now, and did a fluid change just for the heck of it. Fluid that came out looked as new. At this point in time I'm satisfied.

One other observation concerns flywheel weight. I chose the Katech aluminum wheel, which weighs 12#, because of my engine mods and the 4.56 gears that I run. It performs exactly as I hoped, for my combination. I think anyone running stock gearing would be better served with the Lingenfelter 19# steel wheel.

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