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post #31 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-24-2017, 08:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autoprof View Post
I agree with River Rat -- recheck all connections on anything that you moved or loosened. (i thought that you had already done this) Also LOW system voltage can set these codes

Did you have the throttle body removed and ported when you had the tune? --

Be sure that the fuse box terminals are not loose (don't over tighten) and that you check all fuses using test light (especially #21) for throttle actuator module. You can do this quickly with your test light
see the following You tube for more information https://youtu.be/gKgmIcmp7eo

Because only the three codes from the TSB reappeared I have attached a cleaner copy of the TSB that is easier to read. Note the TSB says that the wires break approximately 4 inches from the throttle body connection. You will have to carefully remove the plastic conduit to be able to closely inspect the wires - possibly just beyond the one breakout point (the place where other wires come out of the same harness). The yellow and brown wires are wires that come from the Throttle actuator control module and are used to make the throttle body motor open and close the throttle. You could confirm the operation of the throttle motor by removing the air inlet duct. Then watch the throttle plates while someone else turns on the key (just turn on do not attempt to start) you should see the throttle open slightly. Then have the person inside the car press accelerator pedal down and you should see the throttle plates open. If the throttle does in fact NOT move, You could confirm this is the cause of the no start by manually opening throttle plates (reach inside and hold open just a very small amount and do not put fingers underneath - push the plates open - do not pull them open) then have the person inside the car attempt to start, if engine starts this is where your problem lies. (NOTE this will set another codes in the computer for the mass air flow sensor. Unfortunately a number of other things beside broken wires could cause the throttle motor to not work.

If you were about 4-5 hours closer I would drive out and help. (2-3 hours one way would be all I could do)

I hope this helps - again recheck other connectors first --
"Be sure that the fuse box terminals are not loose (don't over tighten) and that you check all fuses using test light (especially #21) for throttle actuator module. You can do this quickly with your test light"

#21 is fog lamps. I bet you meant 20 the TAC. It and 23 and 24 all do the same and are not like any of the others. All others make the test light very bright.
20,23 and 24 just do make the test light visible.
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post #32 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-24-2017, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
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Garage
Talking

It's working.

I pressed the throttle plate and asked my assistant (Mrs. Wolfpacker) to turn the ignition switch to the on position and when she did the plate jumped a bit. I asked her to put the key in the off position, I put my finger on the plate, she put the key in the on position and the plate jumped a little again. So I thought WTH, crank it dear. It started up and ran smoothly. She shut it down, restarted revved the engine.
All's well.

And she said well now you know what to do if it happens again.

I have no idea,

But thanks to all who offered advice and suggestions.
I'd also appreciate any followup ideas or warnings.
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post #33 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by autoprof View Post
Wolfpacker
The throttle is the big round gold part in pic on. It opens and closes to control the amount of air into engine - thus changing the speed of engine.
Because it doesn't move, I'm on the right track.
ALSO post #26 by autoprof---

HMMM---if you didn't do anything else, just moving the throttle plate, maybe there's a bad spot on the "throttle control motor" or its sticking and by moving it freed it up??? Maybe a good spray down with Throttle Body Cleaner inside???
Glad its going---hope it doesn't reappear!!

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post #34 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nj6969 View Post
ALSO post #26 by autoprof---

HMMM---if you didn't do anything else, just moving the throttle plate, maybe there's a bad spot on the "throttle control motor" or its sticking and by moving it freed it up??? Maybe a good spray down with Throttle Body Cleaner inside???
Glad its going---hope it doesn't reappear!!

Nick
Very possible, one other thought
You mentioned that the test light was barely visible on fuses 20,23 and 24 but was nice and bright on all other fuses. I am assuming you did not move the alligator clip that was attached to a ground as you tested all of the fuses.

Maybe retest fuses 20,23 and 24 with test light now that that everything is functioning correctly -- is the test light now bright at all test locations (both sides of each fuse) like it was on the other fuses?
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post #35 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 09:39 AM Thread Starter
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Currently:

All warning lights are off, and the codes are clear, all fuses check nice and bright, truck starts and runs perfectly.

When I was checking the fuses, circuits before and got the really weak test light with 20, 23 and 24, I went to other fuses and back to those, they were still weak, so the ground remained good.

I did hear a little high pitch sound when I touched those fuses. The odd thing was as I touched a different ones of those three the pitch went up. Those are TAC and fuel injector fuses.
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post #36 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 10:55 AM
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My SSR:
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I not sure about the noise -- Personally I can't hear high pitches. I am also a little confused about how you described it changed.


i do however have some thoughts concerns about the weak test light that is now bright.


1. The dim test light is an indication of reduced current available to operate the light.
2. Current flow goes down when voltage goes down or resistance goes up.
3. Because the other fuse circuits can supply enough current to make the test light bright then the problem also has to be something that would only effect the fuses in question.
4. Because the other fuse circuits share the same voltage source, the problem cannot be a reduction in voltage - the circuit in question must have unwanted/increased resistance. (possible loose connection)
5. This leaves anything in the highlighted section of the wiring diagram I enclosed as suspect. Also a possibility it is low current side of relay #42 -- causing the relay to cycle rapidly. Not common as the low current side will typically either turn the relay on or it cant turn the relay on. Does not typically cause a flicker.
6. If it were my car I would replace relay #42 with a new one and see what happens. I would also make sure that the bolts that holds the fuse box together are snug (plastic connectors on other side DO NOT over tighten). If problem reoccurs - start tapping/wiggle fuse box and relay trying to get it to run.

I would not want to swap relay #42 with only other relay in underhood fuse box that is the same because it is starter solenoid relay and if relay acts up again car still wont start -- I don't believe any others (including the rear fuse box) are the same part#

One of the conditions I noted that could set the codes was low system voltage -- the unwanted resistance would not allow throttle module to operate correctly (it would create an unwanted voltage drop to the module)

Just my thoughts -- really hard to diagnosis long distance without touching, feeling or testing myself

Again congrats for getting it running //

Got to make you wonder - did the previous owner have some fuse box/electrical problems - and that is why you found an extra relay and fuses?
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post #37 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpacker View Post
Currently:

All warning lights are off, and the codes are clear, all fuses check nice and bright, truck starts and runs perfectly.

When I was checking the fuses, circuits before and got the really weak test light with 20, 23 and 24, I went to other fuses and back to those, they were still weak, so the ground remained good.

I did hear a little high pitch sound when I touched those fuses. The odd thing was as I touched a different ones of those three the pitch went up. Those are TAC and fuel injector fuses.
If I followed this thread correctly, the issue was the stuck throttle blade. Either electricity or mechanically stuck throw codes but not always the same ones.
Your slight (finger) movement of the blade (most likely) gave the electric motor a new gear tooth in that specific spot.
Considering how cost effective a whole assembly is, I would consider replacing it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...UTF8&psc=1
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post #38 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 12:53 PM
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Just a suggestion--- if you replace it, save the original for an autopsy or non destructive inspection?!

Nick


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post #39 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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Sad news.

Back to the same problem.

The throttle body was dirty. I took it off, cleaned it, put it back on and told my wife I was going for a drive and enjoy my accomplishments. Very same problem.

Regarding the fuses that dimly light the test light. Two new things.

One if I hold the test light on it it will brighten in a couple of seconds.
Two, with the wiring harness off of the throttle body the fuse are bright, put the harness back on and the light will be dim. Keep contact with the test light and it brightens up.

I also have these codes
the usual P0120, P0220, and P1516 and now P2135 and U0107


Also, I did adapt the test light to check the TB harness. I used speaker wire twisted and folded back on itself. The fuses activated the light with the adaptation, I could not get the TB harness to make the light show. Could be a couple of reasons, but I tried it many times and never got a flicker.
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post #40 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 02:39 PM
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My SSR:
04 Redline #9973
The U code indicates the TAC Module is not communicating on the serial data line.

As a quick test swap relay 42 with starter relay. And see if ttest light nice and bright and throttle plate moves when key on. It may not crank if relay 42 is bad and is now trying to operate starter. But if throttle works and it doesn't crank, you know you have a bad relay.

Edit, sorry to hear, hopefully it happened at home in the garage and not on the road
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post #41 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 02:45 PM
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test light

The high pitch squeal you hear is probably your brand of test light. We use the audible ones so we can hear them when a good signal is had. The higher the squeal, the better the connection is and the power is there to make it squeal.
Without personally playing with your SSR, it is hard to diagnose, but everyone here has had some good feedback for you. Again, please check ALL grounds, and like other have said, do not overtighten certain things. Good luck.
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post #42 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 02:53 PM
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Sure sounds like the throttle position sensor/actuator acting up.
I've seen the actual pedal sensor throw a the P0220 code.

BTW:
After replacing or even cleaning the Throttle Body; it's a good idea to perform a TB re-learn.
Technically, once cleaned the throttle Blade/plate finds a new zero rest.
Here is what has worked for me:

TB relearn
1. Start and idle 3 min
2. Turn ign off for 60 sec
3. Start and idle for 3 min
4. May need to drive over 45mph for a few min and repeat step2 & 3
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post #43 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autoprof View Post
I not sure about the noise -- Personally I can't hear high pitches. I am also a little confused about how you described it changed.


i do however have some thoughts concerns about the weak test light that is now bright.


1. The dim test light is an indication of reduced current available to operate the light.
2. Current flow goes down when voltage goes down or resistance goes up.
3. Because the other fuse circuits can supply enough current to make the test light bright then the problem also has to be something that would only effect the fuses in question.
4. Because the other fuse circuits share the same voltage source, the problem cannot be a reduction in voltage - the circuit in question must have unwanted/increased resistance. (possible loose connection)
5. This leaves anything in the highlighted section of the wiring diagram I enclosed as suspect. Also a possibility it is low current side of relay #42 -- causing the relay to cycle rapidly. Not common as the low current side will typically either turn the relay on or it cant turn the relay on. Does not typically cause a flicker.
6. If it were my car I would replace relay #42 with a new one and see what happens. I would also make sure that the bolts that holds the fuse box together are snug (plastic connectors on other side DO NOT over tighten). If problem reoccurs - start tapping/wiggle fuse box and relay trying to get it to run.

I would not want to swap relay #42 with only other relay in underhood fuse box that is the same because it is starter solenoid relay and if relay acts up again car still wont start -- I don't believe any others (including the rear fuse box) are the same part#

One of the conditions I noted that could set the codes was low system voltage -- the unwanted resistance would not allow throttle module to operate correctly (it would create an unwanted voltage drop to the module)

Just my thoughts -- really hard to diagnosis long distance without touching, feeling or testing myself

Again congrats for getting it running //

Got to make you wonder - did the previous owner have some fuse box/electrical problems - and that is why you found an extra relay and fuses?
"I not sure about the noise -- Personally I can't hear high pitches. I am also a little confused about how you described it changed."

I'll try to better describe the sound that happens when touching the "weak" fuses 20, 23 and 24. Let's say the sound is a piano key. We go to the left side where the notes are high. Test one fuse, hear a sound pick a key. Test another fuse, the sound is a key one or two to the left, test the third fuse, the sound again is one or two keys to the left. Of course it is not a clear tone like a piano but more of a buzz. But the pitch does get higher as the fuses are tested.
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post #44 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 03:35 PM
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Actual (static) battery voltage with a millimeter and voltage while cranking?
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post #45 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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My SSR:
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IT WAS RELAY 42!!!!!

Well as of right now, anyway. The TB plate was not moving in response to ignition on. I switched relays, there are two of those.
With ignition switch going into the "on" position the TB plate opened. I switched relays back no response.
Switched back and it cranked and ran fine. I'll get a new relay. I guess it wasn't bad enough to malfunction when put in the other location.

And I have a newly cleaned Throttle body and a new windshield washer pump. Maybe took a few weeks of of my life span, but now I'm going to try to add them back


Just went to the nearest parts store, they had the relay in stock about $15. Went for a drive before dark. Terrific.
I had it tuned in Texas, but all the driving back was on the interstates.
Drove it a little differently just now.
Love it.


Thanks everyone. I'm also glad this all happened in the garage.
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post #46 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfpacker View Post
IT WAS RELAY 42!!!!!

Well as of right now, anyway. The TB plate was not moving in response to ignition on. I switched relays, there are two of those.
With ignition switch going into the "on" position the TB plate opened. I switched relays back no response.
Switched back and it cranked and ran fine. I'll get a new relay. I guess it wasn't bad enough to malfunction when put in the other location.

And I have a newly cleaned Throttle body and a new windshield washer pump. Maybe took a few weeks of of my life span, but now I'm going to try to add them back

Thanks everyone.
Congratulations to you and your whole team of helpers.
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post #47 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 04:00 PM
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[QUOTE=wolfpacker;3716033]IT WAS RELAY 42!!!!!

Well as of right now, anyway. The TB plate was not moving in response to ignition on. I switched relays, there are two of those.
With ignition switch going into the "on" position the TB plate opened. I switched relays back no response.
Switched back and it cranked and ran fine. I'll get a new relay. I guess it wasn't bad enough to malfunction when put in the other location.

And I have a newly cleaned Throttle body and a new windshield washer pump. Maybe took a few weeks of of my life span, but now I'm going to try to add them back

Thanks everyone.[/QUOTED]

Job well done.

I just happen to be at a place to celebrate with you (virtually)
:

Enjoy my friend you deserve it!
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post #48 of 48 (permalink) Old 10-25-2017, 04:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Medina SSR View Post
The high pitch squeal you hear is probably your brand of test light. We use the audible ones so we can hear them when a good signal is had. The higher the squeal, the better the connection is and the power is there to make it squeal.
Without personally playing with your SSR, it is hard to diagnose, but everyone here has had some good feedback for you. Again, please check ALL grounds, and like other have said, do not overtighten certain things. Good luck.
I don't have that type. The only time I ever heard any noise was every time those three fuses were weak. It was like my testing forced power to something and it was have a reaction.

Anyway, I'm glad that is all over with, it seems so anyway. But, I did have a false positive once during this ordeal. Hopefully that was all.
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