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Discussion Starter #1
:frown2:

MY six speed master cylinder has crud/crap inside the res............I removed the cap and used a Q tip and got most of the crap/crud out. The prior owner and records that I have show he had a new clutch setup (LS-7) installed in 2012. The prior clutch was shot and they derermined that the LS-7 flywheel/pressure plate was a good replacement. The Dealership invoice shows they did all that and added DOT 4 (synthetic) to the clutch.

Clutch works just fine, I'm just concerned about the crud/crap that I found inside the res. as I've never seen such a build-up of any such crap in a brake master cylinder res.

Anyone else with a six speed stick.............had this problem:frown2:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Here’s a clutch fluid discussion from a while back:
http://www.ssrfanatic.com/forum/f5/check-out-clutch-fluid-75497/
:|

Well, thanks........that was an interesting read.......but I'm not thinking it answered my question.

My clutch works absolutely OK, but after a (re-do) clutch replacement job including a fluid replacement........DOT 4 (synthetic), I'm seeing this crud build-up now which I do not lieve should be there.:|

Except for a bad (shot) clutch, I doubt the fluid would have ever been changed.......So. I have a 5 plus year old clutch and also fluid replacement job (using synthetic fluid). that is now crappy looking..............but works.............OK:|
 

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:frown2:

MY six speed master cylinder has crud/crap inside the res............I removed the cap and used a Q tip and got most of the crap/crud out. The prior owner and records that I have show he had a new clutch setup (LS-7) installed in 2012. The prior clutch was shot and they derermined that the LS-7 flywheel/pressure plate was a good replacement. The Dealership invoice shows they did all that and added DOT 4 (synthetic) to the clutch.

Clutch works just fine, I'm just concerned about the crud/crap that I found inside the res. as I've never seen such a build-up of any such crap in a brake master cylinder res.

Anyone else with a six speed stick.............had this problem:frown2:
The crud you have in the res. is clutch material from wear of the clutch. Nothing you can do about it, other then clean out the res. every so often and flush the clutch with fresh dot 4 fluid. I have the same issue with my GTO. Go to LS1GTO.com and search for crud/crap in the clutch res. and you will find many threads on this subject. For some reason the dust from the clutch wearing will enter the slave cylinder and travel up to the res. and form crud in it. I have seen this with several other vehicles that have a slave in the bellhousing. So just keep it clean and don't worry about it.
 

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2004 Slingshot Yellow
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:frown2:

MY six speed master cylinder has crud/crap inside the res............I removed the cap and used a Q tip and got most of the crap/crud out. The prior owner and records that I have show he had a new clutch setup (LS-7) installed in 2012. The prior clutch was shot and they derermined that the LS-7 flywheel/pressure plate was a good replacement. The Dealership invoice shows they did all that and added DOT 4 (synthetic) to the clutch.

Clutch works just fine, I'm just concerned about the crud/crap that I found inside the res. as I've never seen such a build-up of any such crap in a brake master cylinder res.

Anyone else with a six speed stick.............had this problem:frown2:
All brake, clutch and our top hydraulics have many rubber seals in the master cylinders, slave cylinders, compensator valves, wheel cylinders and lift cylinders.
Cycling the system slowly wears the rubber seals and turns the fluid dark. The particles settle out in the reservoir when the system is at rest. The wear is normal and will not affect system performance to a point. Eventually the seals can just fail due to age or the wear allows blow by and rebuild or replacement is needed.
Since your clutch is still working fine you are OK for a while but keep aware for any future soft pedal or poor clutch disengagement.
With the age of our SSR's it's always a good idea to flush and replace the hydraulic fluids when they start to get discolored. Hydraulic fluid is also hydrophobic and will absorb moisture over many years making the fluid cloudy and increasing its compressibility leading to mushy pedal.
Greg
 

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In spite of the information given above, the main culprit is heat. The line from the pedal to slave runs fairly close to the exhaust in an area that is one of the few spaces for hot air to exit the engine compartment. This tends to break down the fluid over time resulting in discoloration, particulate, etc. Mine had issues from day one in 2005 so I got to learn right away.
The LS7 clutch is a great setup, so much better than the original.
BTW, the hydraulic fluid is hygroscopic not hydrophobic (it adsorbs water versus repelling it). As it adsorbs water, it reduces the boiling point of the fluid. This in turn will eventually result in a bubble in the system that will cause the clutch system to not operate yet when it is cool, it will work fine.
 

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Hi I don't have a six speed but this is what my brake fluid looked like when I flushed it out .
I'm a big fan of changing all of the fluids, its cheaper to change fluid then to do a major repair .
Just my opinion . Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #8
OK,

Thanks for the feedback, It's currently using synthetic DOT 4, good to know it is really not all that much to worry about. I will keep it swabbed out as much as possible.
 

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:frown2:

MY six speed master cylinder has crud/crap inside the res............I removed the cap and used a Q tip and got most of the crap/crud out. The prior owner and records that I have show he had a new clutch setup (LS-7) installed in 2012. The prior clutch was shot and they derermined that the LS-7 flywheel/pressure plate was a good replacement. The Dealership invoice shows they did all that and added DOT 4 (synthetic) to the clutch.

Clutch works just fine, I'm just concerned about the crud/crap that I found inside the res. as I've never seen such a build-up of any such crap in a brake master cylinder res.

Anyone else with a six speed stick.............had this problem:frown2:
Unclear on what the dealership actually did here. Used DOT4 (regular 'old style', high temp non-synthetic fluid) or DOT5 which is a synthetic.

DOT4 and DOT5 fluids are not compatible unless the cylinder & lines have been thoroughly flushed of DOT4 using alcohol, before installing DOT5 fluid. Apparently the two mixed together forms globules in the system.


Ken, Vancouver Island
 

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Unclear on what the dealership actually did here. Used DOT4 (regular 'old style', high temp non-synthetic fluid) or DOT5 which is a synthetic.

DOT4 and DOT5 fluids are not compatible unless the cylinder & lines have been thoroughly flushed of DOT4 using alcohol, before installing DOT5 fluid. Apparently the two mixed together forms globules in the system.


Ken, Vancouver Island
DOT 3 and DOT 4 can be found in synthetic formulation. DOT 5 is silicone based and not compatible with DOT 3 or DOT 4.
 

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DOT 3 and DOT 4 can be found in synthetic formulation. DOT 5 is silicone based and not compatible with DOT 3 or DOT 4.
Oops. You're absolutely right.

I read 'synthetic' and thought 'silicon'. Apparently my eyes are no longer connected to my brain.



Ken, Vancouver Island
 

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In spite of the information given above, the main culprit is heat. The line from the pedal to slave runs fairly close to the exhaust in an area that is one of the few spaces for hot air to exit the engine compartment. This tends to break down the fluid over time resulting in discoloration, particulate, etc. Mine had issues from day one in 2005 so I got to learn right away.
The LS7 clutch is a great setup, so much better than the original.
BTW, the hydraulic fluid is hygroscopic not hydrophobic (it adsorbs water versus repelling it). As it adsorbs water, it reduces the boiling point of the fluid. This in turn will eventually result in a bubble in the system that will cause the clutch system to not operate yet when it is cool, it will work fine.
With the GTO's, we have wrapped the line with high temp wrap and still have the issue. So it is not all heat related. It is a combination of the two, heat and dust from the clutch wearing. The best thing to do is flush it every so often with fresh dot4 fluid from a sealed bottle and remember to cycle the pedal several times to stir the fluid up before and while flushing with the bleeder closed.
 

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With the GTO's, we have wrapped the line with high temp wrap and still have the issue. So it is not all heat related. It is a combination of the two, heat and dust from the clutch wearing. The best thing to do is flush it every so often with fresh dot4 fluid from a sealed bottle and remember to cycle the pedal several times to stir the fluid up before and while flushing with the bleeder closed.
Insulation will slow heat transfer not eliminate it. The longer the drive the less help the insulation will be. Not to say that the clutch wear particulate may be a smaller factor but the heat is the number one issue. Been there done that from the day I bought my SSR Jan 2005, clutch failed within a couple of days of purchase from freeway heat. Once cooled, it worked find until the heat did it's thing. As it was new, there was no change for the other items to have an impact. LS7 clutch and slave with a wrapped line and a reroute was the eventual final 'cure' though the fluid still degrades and needs to be replaced at a regular interval.
 

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The crud you have in the res. is clutch material from wear of the clutch. Nothing you can do about it, other then clean out the res. every so often and flush the clutch with fresh dot 4 fluid. I have the same issue with my GTO. Go to LS1GTO.com and search for crud/crap in the clutch res. and you will find many threads on this subject. For some reason the dust from the clutch wearing will enter the slave cylinder and travel up to the res. and form crud in it. I have seen this with several other vehicles that have a slave in the bellhousing. So just keep it clean and don't worry about it.
I do not believe the clutch disc "dust'' or any particulates outside the sealed hydraulic system can make its way into the hydraulic system. If that could happen, not only would air be sucked in with it, but it would leak as well.
The fluid breaks down over time because of heat cycling, moisture and deterioration of line and slave seal.
Just think about it. If dust can get in, so can air and if that can get in, fluid under pressure can get out.
Same with brake system. The fluid gets dirty from the caliper and/or wheel cylinder and lines corroding. Brake fluid is not only hygroscopic as stated above, but slightly caustic as well.
 

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Did your LS7 clutch setup come with the bleeder line? I changed my clutch also but added the bleeder line and it is a breeze changing out the fluids. SINISTER is my go to tranny man after he straightened out a screwup that Clearwater Chevrolet did.
 

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Just think about it. If dust can get in, so can air and if that can get in, fluid under pressure can get out.
Same with brake system. The fluid gets dirty from the caliper and/or wheel cylinder and lines corroding. Brake fluid is not only hygroscopic as stated above, but slightly caustic as well.
:agree I wanted to say the same thing but never had a Hydraulic clutch---BUT like you said, it shouldn't be different from Brakes!! Even leaking wheel cylinders won't SUCK in dirt in my opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
OK,

Thanks for the feedback, It's currently using synthetic DOT 4, good to know it is really not all that much to worry about. I will keep it swabbed out as much as possible.
:surprise:
Well, it seems as if my post has brought about different (theories) as to what could cause the fluid contamination.

I too had serious doubts as to just how clutch disc "dust" was gonna migrate into the slave cylinder and out the other side into the line and on up to the res.:frown2:

As I said, I'll keep an eye on it and try to keep it swabbed out. While the clutch is working OK, that should suffice.

Soon will have my new ride up on a hoist doing some exhaust system work and at that time, maybe I can observe if any (modification) to the bleeder setup was done external to the bellhousing when the LS7 clutch setup was installed.:smile2:
 

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I do not believe the clutch disc "dust'' or any particulates outside the sealed hydraulic system can make its way into the hydraulic system. If that could happen, not only would air be sucked in with it, but it would leak as well.
The fluid breaks down over time because of heat cycling, moisture and deterioration of line and slave seal.
Just think about it. If dust can get in, so can air and if that can get in, fluid under pressure can get out.
Same with brake system. The fluid gets dirty from the caliper and/or wheel cylinder and lines corroding. Brake fluid is not only hygroscopic as stated above, but slightly caustic as well.
A guy with a ZO6 was having clutch issues and sent two dirty fluid samples and some clutch dust, from his bellhousing, to Unovis Advanced Process Lab for analysis. Part of the report stated " particles of similar elemental constituents were detected in all three samples. In addition the physical appearance and general particle size was identical for all three samples." The report said that there was a strong concentration of copper and iron along with sulfur and magnesium present, in the fluids.

My feeling is that the abrasive clutch dust degrades the slave seal and allows contamination of the fluid.
 

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I had a hard time believing that clutch dust could get into a hydraulic system under 1000 psi pressure.
I remembered this same subject being debated on the corvette forum years ago so, I did a search and came up with the attached video which should answer this issue and provide maintenance tips.
Even if you are not aggressively driving your SSR we must remember that every time you shift your trying to move 5000lbs of weight.
Greg
 
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