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·check this out http://www.forbes.com/2004/12/22/cx_dl_1222vow.html
Forbes Article on SSR vs HHR
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Doesn't make sense to me....
When the PT came out, the complaint was "not enough HP". Now the HHR will have...and I quote... Instead, the HHR will use one or more four-cylinder engines, the horsepower of which will be somewhere between 140 and 220.
Are they trying to reinvent the wheel by not using at least a 6 cylinder engine??
I can't wait to hear the complaints.
Peace :flag
When the PT came out, the complaint was "not enough HP". Now the HHR will have...and I quote... Instead, the HHR will use one or more four-cylinder engines, the horsepower of which will be somewhere between 140 and 220.
Are they trying to reinvent the wheel by not using at least a 6 cylinder engine??
I can't wait to hear the complaints.Peace :flag
Forbes = No Car Magazine!
Forbes seemed to miss the nitch market that WILL fulfill Chevy's need for sales, given a chance. The group with the most purchasing power in the USA are the BABY BOOMERS" of which I am one. The next largest group is the "TWEENERS" ages 8-12. Guess which group is going to buy the SSR. The same group that embraced the corvette in the 60's and made it the icon that it is. The same group that can afford the price of a Corvette powered retro rod. The "BABY BOOMERS."That is what will be the success of this little truck, Corvette power.
I have owned Vettes all my life and still do. But I am one of the guys who was looking at the new C-6 as my next Vette until I saw that the next SSR is "vette powered". I'm 59 years old and enjoy my vette and SLP Camaro SS but I am really glad to say I will enjoy the SSR more as a daily driver because of ease of entry and exit. I am glad to enjoy a vehicle that I dont have to "climb" out of. I came from a generation that defined performance and at my age I still demand that illusion of performance. In the next few years to come more and more people like me will see the benefit of such a compromise.
The SSR certainly isn't a Vette and never will be, BUT, what an alternative! I really believe that as Chevy refines this little retro truck it will become more and more desirable as a replacement for our beloved Vette. And remember there are alot of us "BABY BOOMERS" out their just waiting for an acceptable replacement.
Just as the Corvette is bought by Chevy lovers aged mostly from 35 to 50 years of age, the HHR is going to be a great alternative for the younger people who want something "cool" to drive but don't yet have the funds available for a higher priced performance vehicle. It will be a great alternative to the very popular P.T. Cruiser.
G.M. took 4 years to get the Vette right and by the 4th year of SSR production, they will certainly have gotten it right also. Not that it isn't already! :cool
Forbes seemed to miss the nitch market that WILL fulfill Chevy's need for sales, given a chance. The group with the most purchasing power in the USA are the BABY BOOMERS" of which I am one. The next largest group is the "TWEENERS" ages 8-12. Guess which group is going to buy the SSR. The same group that embraced the corvette in the 60's and made it the icon that it is. The same group that can afford the price of a Corvette powered retro rod. The "BABY BOOMERS."That is what will be the success of this little truck, Corvette power.
I have owned Vettes all my life and still do. But I am one of the guys who was looking at the new C-6 as my next Vette until I saw that the next SSR is "vette powered". I'm 59 years old and enjoy my vette and SLP Camaro SS but I am really glad to say I will enjoy the SSR more as a daily driver because of ease of entry and exit. I am glad to enjoy a vehicle that I dont have to "climb" out of. I came from a generation that defined performance and at my age I still demand that illusion of performance. In the next few years to come more and more people like me will see the benefit of such a compromise.
The SSR certainly isn't a Vette and never will be, BUT, what an alternative! I really believe that as Chevy refines this little retro truck it will become more and more desirable as a replacement for our beloved Vette. And remember there are alot of us "BABY BOOMERS" out their just waiting for an acceptable replacement.
Just as the Corvette is bought by Chevy lovers aged mostly from 35 to 50 years of age, the HHR is going to be a great alternative for the younger people who want something "cool" to drive but don't yet have the funds available for a higher priced performance vehicle. It will be a great alternative to the very popular P.T. Cruiser.
G.M. took 4 years to get the Vette right and by the 4th year of SSR production, they will certainly have gotten it right also. Not that it isn't already! :cool
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I will tell you the same thing I told my girlfriend. We are a proud owner of a vehicle that most likely will ever be made again. In about 5 or 10 years, People will still be asking is this a custom truck or what. I am glad that I bought it and I love the way it looks. And when the HHR come out I plane to get that also. I will always support GM. There is always one vehilce that does not sell well in every line. I thank GM for something that my people my age will love and enjoy for years to come. The same way my father had his vehilce that he loved for years.
THANKS GM FOR THINKING OF US. :flag
I am glad that I bought it and I love the way it looks. And when the HHR come out I plane to get that also. I will always support GM. There is always one vehilce that does not sell well in every line. I thank GM for something that my people my age will love and enjoy for years to come. The same way my father had his vehilce that he loved for years. THANKS GM FOR THINKING OF US. :flag
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111 Posts
SSR Vs. PTC or HHR
I agree with Marc. How can anyone compare the SSR to a PT Cruiser or the HHR? These are totally different vehicles! I happen to own a PTC... or my wife does. She loves it! But there is just no comparison... even my wife agrees!
There are so many "Car Enthusiasts" in the USA today; I can't believe the SSR is doing so poorly... Is it just the price... it is steep! It’s less than a new Corvette (I haven’t seen the price of a convertible yet), but also doesn’t have the same performance, handling, and pristine amenities…. While its way more than a PTC with an assume “Mussel Car” effect using modern technology (LS2 (big block power with a small block), Tremec 6-Speed, Eaton 9.5 inch/373 rear)… it even turns my head lights on & off automatically and tells me when “Ice Possible”.
I don’t understand the comparison… It just isn’t right…nor are the sales!!!!!!!!
Marc NY said:
I agree with Marc. How can anyone compare the SSR to a PT Cruiser or the HHR? These are totally different vehicles! I happen to own a PTC... or my wife does. She loves it! But there is just no comparison... even my wife agrees!
There are so many "Car Enthusiasts" in the USA today; I can't believe the SSR is doing so poorly... Is it just the price... it is steep! It’s less than a new Corvette (I haven’t seen the price of a convertible yet), but also doesn’t have the same performance, handling, and pristine amenities…. While its way more than a PTC with an assume “Mussel Car” effect using modern technology (LS2 (big block power with a small block), Tremec 6-Speed, Eaton 9.5 inch/373 rear)… it even turns my head lights on & off automatically and tells me when “Ice Possible”.
I don’t understand the comparison… It just isn’t right…nor are the sales!!!!!!!!
Worst-selling?
Does anyone else think Dan Lienert's comment "...SSR has been Chevy's worst-selling vehicle this year by far..." was a bit of a cheap shot? I wonder if Sony thinks of their 51 inch Plazma monitor as their worst selling TV. Simply because fewer are sold does not mean they are "worst". GM never intended to sell more SSRs than Cavaliers. I'll bet Sony expected to sell more 27" tube TVs this year than HD flat screens.
Does anyone else think Dan Lienert's comment "...SSR has been Chevy's worst-selling vehicle this year by far..." was a bit of a cheap shot? I wonder if Sony thinks of their 51 inch Plazma monitor as their worst selling TV. Simply because fewer are sold does not mean they are "worst". GM never intended to sell more SSRs than Cavaliers. I'll bet Sony expected to sell more 27" tube TVs this year than HD flat screens.
Wildcat66, you're probably correct in stating that GM "could care less" and that's the scary part of the SSR sales problem. Anytime a company falls 50% short in its sales projections and has approx. 8,000 unsold units sitting on lots with brand spanking new 2003 and 2004 SSR's selling for $30,000, after rebates(These are units with sticker prices of $45,000 to $47,000) a serious problem exists that if not recognized and addressed will eventually destroy a company. GM has had its' share of market fall from 47% in 1980 to 27.5% in 2004. Toyota, at its current sales rate will be #3 by 2007 which means that either Ford, GM, or Daimler -Chrysler will be pushed out of the "Top 3". Many automotive writers predict that one of the current big 3 autos will be bankrupt within 3 yrs. I think the problem with the SSR sales wasn't so much an engineering or manafacturing problem as it was a marketing problem. Greedy dealers were gouging customers last Fall and Winter with the $5,000 to $15,000 OVER window price and that tactic came home to haunt GM, their dealers, and customers like myself who paid window price. GM should never have allowed that to happen. Same thing with the new GTO and GM announced last week that the 2005 GTO production will be cut by 30%. Greed is a terrible thing and that greed by GM dealers allowed cars to sit unsold and now they have 8,000 unsold units on their hands that they can't sell even when they discount them by some $15,000. If you can buy a brand new 2004 with 0 miles for $30,000 then what does that make my pristine 2003 with 4,000 miles worth? Every time someone posts a thread on this site that isn't glowing or complimentary they get flamed so I'm prepared for that. I'm just stating facts. I love my SSR, plan to keep it many years, but GM needs to recognize existing problems so that they can avoid such problems with their future projects. Just my opinion and I could be wrong.
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I really didn't mean they didn't care. I mean that they aren't bothered by the lower sales because we Serious buyers are buying them and I am sure the resale on this truck is much lower than any other vehicle they have sold. Yes I am sure GM would love to sell everyone made and what company doesnt'. But that is just not realistic for any company.wildcat66 said:
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Zig Zag
I like the zig zag theory. I have no need to follow trends, infact I like to go the other way.
The best time to sell stock is when everyone else wants it, and are paying big bucks for it. When bubblegum cards where just a cheap sales tool and SOME people held on to them it = $. And then everyone wanted to collect them, so new production starts. Everyone buy’s the new one’s thinking that it’s the same as when no one did in mass. They have been ziged.
I waited till now to buy a 03, on the zag side of things. We all might be on the zag side in 20 years, who knows who cares.
Buy what you like and enjoy it. About 1990 I decided to never buy new again, nothing looked good to me. I would rather build a custom (one of a kind) in my back yard for less money. But here I am, seen something I like so I bought it.
I like the zig zag theory. I have no need to follow trends, infact I like to go the other way.
The best time to sell stock is when everyone else wants it, and are paying big bucks for it. When bubblegum cards where just a cheap sales tool and SOME people held on to them it = $. And then everyone wanted to collect them, so new production starts. Everyone buy’s the new one’s thinking that it’s the same as when no one did in mass. They have been ziged.
I waited till now to buy a 03, on the zag side of things. We all might be on the zag side in 20 years, who knows who cares.
Buy what you like and enjoy it. About 1990 I decided to never buy new again, nothing looked good to me. I would rather build a custom (one of a kind) in my back yard for less money. But here I am, seen something I like so I bought it.
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I agree with RedTn on this one.
I was in Knoxville on business last December, and checked with three Knoxville dealers - they were at $5K, 8K and 10K over MSRP, and not the least bit embarassed about it. I purchased mine in May from a North Carolina owner who had his dealer back out of a 2 year old agreement to purchase at MSRP when his SSR arrived in late October 03. That dealer lost a long term customer for life over a $3000 gouging.
We had a worse situation in Canada, where GM Canada got caught with its pants down as exchange rates improved, and they didn't adjust to market pricing. Most of the early Fanatics in Canada ended up buying used SSRs in the US, further messing up the marketplace in Canada.
Pricing is now down $30K Canadian on new 04s from the original pricing on 03s. I started off $25000 ahead of Canadian retail on mine, but am seriously in the glue on it at this stage. Like others, I love my SSR, and intend to own this one, or another for a long time, but I'm not happy about the instability in the marketplace.
Ray
I was in Knoxville on business last December, and checked with three Knoxville dealers - they were at $5K, 8K and 10K over MSRP, and not the least bit embarassed about it. I purchased mine in May from a North Carolina owner who had his dealer back out of a 2 year old agreement to purchase at MSRP when his SSR arrived in late October 03. That dealer lost a long term customer for life over a $3000 gouging.
We had a worse situation in Canada, where GM Canada got caught with its pants down as exchange rates improved, and they didn't adjust to market pricing. Most of the early Fanatics in Canada ended up buying used SSRs in the US, further messing up the marketplace in Canada.
Pricing is now down $30K Canadian on new 04s from the original pricing on 03s. I started off $25000 ahead of Canadian retail on mine, but am seriously in the glue on it at this stage. Like others, I love my SSR, and intend to own this one, or another for a long time, but I'm not happy about the instability in the marketplace.
Ray
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I agree with RedTn.SSR. GM pushed the SSR as its halo vehcile that would draw people into the dealerships. When they arrived at the dealership they found the SSR MSRP in the mid to high $40K range and many dealerships trying to charge far more (depending on when or where you are located).
The feature set of the SSR (overall) is good (although a bit too simple in some areas). The price is about $10K above where it should have been from the start to attract enough people to purchase the Chevy "halo" (at the time) vehicle. As we are seeing now with new 2003/2004 SSRs going for 30K to 35K, the market forces spanked GM with reality showing the SSR is just plain overpriced for enough people to purchase the number of SSRs GM is building.
I was in the local Chevy dealership yesterday to get the CA "Cobalt" game piece decoded and they had an 04 SSR 1SB with the "Red Tag" sales tag with a no haggle price of $40990 for a SSR with a MSRP of $44990. Can you believe they're still trying to ask that much for a SSR in CA. It does not surprise me at this dealership. That's why they have six or seven SSRs still on their lot.
The feature set of the SSR (overall) is good (although a bit too simple in some areas). The price is about $10K above where it should have been from the start to attract enough people to purchase the Chevy "halo" (at the time) vehicle. As we are seeing now with new 2003/2004 SSRs going for 30K to 35K, the market forces spanked GM with reality showing the SSR is just plain overpriced for enough people to purchase the number of SSRs GM is building.
I was in the local Chevy dealership yesterday to get the CA "Cobalt" game piece decoded and they had an 04 SSR 1SB with the "Red Tag" sales tag with a no haggle price of $40990 for a SSR with a MSRP of $44990. Can you believe they're still trying to ask that much for a SSR in CA. It does not surprise me at this dealership. That's why they have six or seven SSRs still on their lot.
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Marc, Take a message to GM for us.
I'm happy that GM wants input from us, and that would seem to indicate production will continue for some time. Perhaps the total production numbers need to be adjusted downward to be in line with sales. The best marketing tidbit I ever got was that the ideal scenario is when there is one less item produced than the market demands.
As long as there is product sitting, and the consumer thinks there's a better deal to be had, the product won't move very well. When there is no more product sitting, desirability is back up, and pricing starts to move upward. Unfortunately, that puts the gouging dealers back in the driver's seat, and I'd hate to see that again.
That's where I get concerned about the future. Rumours about a high performance SSR, possibly a 7 l (why don't they call it a 427 for nostalgia reasons - 7 l is 427.167 c.i.) for 07 have me very interested in a new SSR at that stage. What I'm afraid of is that if GM limits production (ie 500 units) then the gouging dealers win, and the long standing, loyal SSR owner really wanting and deserving a new toy, takes a beating. The big dealers who are strong on Corvette sales get the biggest allocations, and the small town dealer with my presold order may not see one at all.
I would be thrilled if GM actually took the incentive to inform its SSR owners about the future, and made some effort to put us first in line for a desireable new product. I think we have earned that courtesy - we've been very loyal, paid premium prices to be first with an SSR, and have done great PR work for GM by taking our SSRs to shows, and spending hours taking the top down at shopping centers and car shows. GM, on the other hand, displayed the SSR at two car shows I was at - locked, with the roof up, and saying they didn't have the keys when someone wanted to see the top working.
I'm drooling over the prospect of a 500 HP 427 6 speed SSR, but I won't be pushed into paying over MSRP to get one - and I don't want to be caught in an all out brawl with my fellow Fanatics trying to land one of 500 pieces available. The only winner then is the dealer who is more than happy to sell to the highest bidder.
Hopefully I'm not the only one thinking this way - feedback from others would strengthen the case for making a high performance SSR available to anyone who is willing to pay a fair price to get one.
Ray
I'm happy that GM wants input from us, and that would seem to indicate production will continue for some time. Perhaps the total production numbers need to be adjusted downward to be in line with sales. The best marketing tidbit I ever got was that the ideal scenario is when there is one less item produced than the market demands.
As long as there is product sitting, and the consumer thinks there's a better deal to be had, the product won't move very well. When there is no more product sitting, desirability is back up, and pricing starts to move upward. Unfortunately, that puts the gouging dealers back in the driver's seat, and I'd hate to see that again.
That's where I get concerned about the future. Rumours about a high performance SSR, possibly a 7 l (why don't they call it a 427 for nostalgia reasons - 7 l is 427.167 c.i.) for 07 have me very interested in a new SSR at that stage. What I'm afraid of is that if GM limits production (ie 500 units) then the gouging dealers win, and the long standing, loyal SSR owner really wanting and deserving a new toy, takes a beating. The big dealers who are strong on Corvette sales get the biggest allocations, and the small town dealer with my presold order may not see one at all.
I would be thrilled if GM actually took the incentive to inform its SSR owners about the future, and made some effort to put us first in line for a desireable new product. I think we have earned that courtesy - we've been very loyal, paid premium prices to be first with an SSR, and have done great PR work for GM by taking our SSRs to shows, and spending hours taking the top down at shopping centers and car shows. GM, on the other hand, displayed the SSR at two car shows I was at - locked, with the roof up, and saying they didn't have the keys when someone wanted to see the top working.
I'm drooling over the prospect of a 500 HP 427 6 speed SSR, but I won't be pushed into paying over MSRP to get one - and I don't want to be caught in an all out brawl with my fellow Fanatics trying to land one of 500 pieces available. The only winner then is the dealer who is more than happy to sell to the highest bidder.
Hopefully I'm not the only one thinking this way - feedback from others would strengthen the case for making a high performance SSR available to anyone who is willing to pay a fair price to get one.
Ray
Will GM Dealers Ever Wake-Up to Reality?
One last perspective. In Nov. 2003 when I was trying to find a SSR to purchase I spent lots of time on the internet, phone, and traveling to Chevrolet dealerships in an effort to: 1. Find a SSR. 2. Get the best price that I could. Towards the end of Nov. I found a small Chevy dealership about 50 miles from my home that actually had a new 2003 Redline Red SSR ON THE LOT for sale. I talked with a salesman, then the General Manager, and finally the Owner of the dealership. I convinced them that I was for real, a serious potential buyer not just a tire-kicker, and that I had the financial ability to buy the SSR without a trade-in. The best and final offer from the dealer was $60,000 cash for the $46,400 window stickered SSR. I explained this was not realistic to me, I WAS going to buy new SSR as soon as I found one at sticker price. The dealer chuckled at me and wished me the best. Three days later (thanks to the internet) I found one 250 miles, and one state away. I was ecstatic to buy serial# 1375 for sticker price on 11/29/03. I was in the small rural town town 2 wks. ago and there on the lot was the same 2003 SSR that I had negotiated on a yr. earlier (serial# in the 1200 range). It has 300 Demo miles on it, showing some "dealer lot wear", and a Must Sell sign on the windshield of $39,995. A young salesman approached me and asked if I had interest(I was not driving my SSR that day). I asked what the bottom-line price would be and he said the owner was firm at the $39,995 figure and that they had turned down an offer of $39,000. Of course, this may have been a salemans tactic. I didn't have the heart to tell him that 2 other dealers in the area were advertising new 2004 SSR's for $34,995. Regardless, this SSR has been on the lot for over a yr., it's now a 2 yr. old model, got 300 miles and some wear on it. If the dealer would have only been less GREEDY a yr. earlier we both could have been happy. Instead of 8,000 unsold SSR's sitting around on dealer lots a lot more would have been sold had dealers not "jacked" the prices up over window. Now the supply far excedes the demand and that helps no one. Not GM, not the dealers, not the buyers. I'll quit this rant but I get so frustrated at GM when they let dealers screw-up a great idea like the SSR. GM should have ridden roughshod with the Chevy dealerships to have prevented this price gouging to have taken place. Perhaps then the demand would exceed the supply which would make everyone happier or would that make the greedy dealers gouge even more? I'll have to think about that!
One last perspective. In Nov. 2003 when I was trying to find a SSR to purchase I spent lots of time on the internet, phone, and traveling to Chevrolet dealerships in an effort to: 1. Find a SSR. 2. Get the best price that I could. Towards the end of Nov. I found a small Chevy dealership about 50 miles from my home that actually had a new 2003 Redline Red SSR ON THE LOT for sale. I talked with a salesman, then the General Manager, and finally the Owner of the dealership. I convinced them that I was for real, a serious potential buyer not just a tire-kicker, and that I had the financial ability to buy the SSR without a trade-in. The best and final offer from the dealer was $60,000 cash for the $46,400 window stickered SSR. I explained this was not realistic to me, I WAS going to buy new SSR as soon as I found one at sticker price. The dealer chuckled at me and wished me the best. Three days later (thanks to the internet) I found one 250 miles, and one state away. I was ecstatic to buy serial# 1375 for sticker price on 11/29/03. I was in the small rural town town 2 wks. ago and there on the lot was the same 2003 SSR that I had negotiated on a yr. earlier (serial# in the 1200 range). It has 300 Demo miles on it, showing some "dealer lot wear", and a Must Sell sign on the windshield of $39,995. A young salesman approached me and asked if I had interest(I was not driving my SSR that day). I asked what the bottom-line price would be and he said the owner was firm at the $39,995 figure and that they had turned down an offer of $39,000. Of course, this may have been a salemans tactic. I didn't have the heart to tell him that 2 other dealers in the area were advertising new 2004 SSR's for $34,995. Regardless, this SSR has been on the lot for over a yr., it's now a 2 yr. old model, got 300 miles and some wear on it. If the dealer would have only been less GREEDY a yr. earlier we both could have been happy. Instead of 8,000 unsold SSR's sitting around on dealer lots a lot more would have been sold had dealers not "jacked" the prices up over window. Now the supply far excedes the demand and that helps no one. Not GM, not the dealers, not the buyers. I'll quit this rant but I get so frustrated at GM when they let dealers screw-up a great idea like the SSR. GM should have ridden roughshod with the Chevy dealerships to have prevented this price gouging to have taken place. Perhaps then the demand would exceed the supply which would make everyone happier or would that make the greedy dealers gouge even more? I'll have to think about that!
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I don't know if anyone went to a auto in there area. I wen to the one in DC at the end of 2002 and the beginning of 2003. This is were I first saw the SSR. me and my girlfriend were just about to buy a 2003 Mercedes SLK 32. Then we went upstairs and saw the SSR. We both feel in love with it at that time. We talk to the reps that were there. They told us then that the truck was going to go for a price between 30 and 40,000 and it was going to be out in the spring. The next day i was on the phone with dealers tring to find out who is getting one and when do they have deposits on them. I found a dealer that did not have a deposit on it and we went and put a deposit on it. For the next several months we got the run around from the dealer as to when they were getting the one SSR in that they were allowed to sell that year. Or at least that is what we were told. To cut this short. The dealer would not tell us what he is selling it for. He keep making us believe that he is going to sell it for sticker price. As the end of the year arrived. We started hearing that other dealers were getting there trucks. We still got the run around. So we went to another dealer that had one on the lot. They sold it to us for 10,000 above sticker. We went back to the dealer that we had the deposit at and got our money back. We pulled up in the SSR and the owners mouth dropped. He tried to do everything possible to get us to take ours back and buy from him. We never told him a price but he still tried to get 15,000 above sticker for the one that he did not have on his lot yet.
Just as I have said before. I love GM, but if they don't control there dealers they will be losing a lot of business from people. Sorry GM. But I still love you. :rant
Just as I have said before. I love GM, but if they don't control there dealers they will be losing a lot of business from people. Sorry GM. But I still love you. :rant
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