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Discussion Starter #1
This "rant" may be a bit wordy but I've got to vent my disappointment with GM. I thought that Bob Lutz would awake the sleeping giant when he came over to GM a couple yrs. back. Thusfar, it's all eye candy and no real meat. The 2004 Pontiac GTO was supposed to sell 15,000 units and as of June 1 the total sales were 2,451, according to Crain's Automotive News. As an owner of a 1967 GTO I can see why buyers weren't happy with the bland appearance of the NEW GTO. SSR sales are, as we know, about half of expectations. Dealer price gouging on the SSR, for the first 6 months or so, were ridiculous. For those of us who did buy a SSR at window or above prices GM is deaf to our pleas for help with problems such as the flimsy hood prop rod. Chrysler on the other hand is hitting home runs with the Hemi trucks, the Chrysler 300C, the Dodge Magnum wagon, the Viper, and the SRT-10 truck. For the first 6 months of 2003 Chrysler lost $904 million dollars. For the first 6 months of 2004 they made $899 million dollars. People are paying sticker and above for the 300C, the Magnum, and the SRT-10. Chevrolet came out with the Silverado SS truck that looked good but had no guts. The Ford Lightning and Hemi trucks blow it away. The new retro look Ford Mustang should be a real winner based on early road tests and reviews. GM's idea for performance is a few stickers & decals, painted calipers, and a hot ad. The competition is kicking GM's butt, especially so in the performance area. Bottom line is---------horsepower sells and GM builds an Aztec and puts a 300 hp in a 4,760 lb. 2003 & 2004 SSR. I know that the 2005 SSR will have a bigger engine but that engine should have been in those already produced! I'm a GM fan and have the Chevy bowtie in my blood but I can't just sit back and watch the other car companies run circles around GM. GM has big block motors in their inventory so why don't they get competitive and put them in their trucks? GM could drop a 502 cu. in. motor in a half ton truck, price them in the $20,000 to $25,000 range and sell a ton of them. Keep them cheap, not all loaded up with leather and fancy expensive options, like the old Plymouth Roadrunners were. I'm tired of hearing Hemi this and Hemi that! GM has rebates in my area right now that are $8,000 off on Trailblazers, $9,000 off on Silverado's, $3,500 off on SSR's, and $10,000 off on a white 2004 white Corvette convertible. Rebates like this occur only when vehicles aren't selling and manafacturers have to offer incentives. If GM would build the cars and trucks that people really wanted they wouldn't have to offer rebates. Or when they do build a vehicle that's "hot" the dealers act like they are a Ferrari or a Maserati and price them at 10 to 20 thousand dollars over window, the way some Chevy dealers did with the early SSR's. What car, or truck, does Chevrolet offer right now(exluding the SSR and the Vette) that you would really want to buy? Wake up GM, get your head out of the sand and offer some affordable performance cars and trucks that we gear-heads really WANT to buy! Your competition is doing exactly this and being quite successful in their endeavors. Course, this is just my opinion and I could be wrong.
 

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The General

I agree but....
You can't hit a home run unless you swing for the fence. When you swing for the fence every time you run the risk of missing too.

There was a time when GM ALWAYS took the safe route. At least now they're swinging.

We all knew exactly what we were getting when we got in line for our SSR's. I certainly agree that it could have been better but my wife and I still wouldn't trade the ownership experience we've had for the last 10+ months for anything else available then. I've said it before, pretty soon there will be the 'next hot toy' and it will be time to move on. In the mean time, I couldn't imagine having more fun even with a 390 HP 6 liter 6 speed.

After all, how big a grin can you have before you start lookin' kinda silly?
 

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Remember when.....

Remember when u walked in2 the Chebbie showroom n ordered ur car?

Salesman: "Can I help u sir?" :)

Me: "I'd like the Biscayne....the 427 Rat Motor...Close ratio Muncie box with 4.56 gears. No radio...no power anything. Jus striped down." :thumbs

Salesman: "Color"?

Me: "Yes, black wud b jus fine. How much is it?"

Salesman:$2,385.00 + TTT.

Me:"Great!!! When can I get it?"

Salesman: "4-6 weeks."

Me: "OK!!" :thumbs

Salesman: "Sign here...and Thank U very much, sir." :)

Ah...those were the days...... :lol

:cool
 
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Defending the GTO

I was curious on the performance of the GTO and took one for a test drive (Salesman in car with me-darn) and could tell this car had guts. I purchased this same Australian built Red/Red 350 H.P. "sleeper" and can tell you this car is the most fun one to drive I have had in years! Turn off the traction control, little brake torque and tires are smoking, leaving a double patch in the distance and when the automatic shifts to second, there is another squeal of tires! This car is a blast to drive, has a beautiful, quality interior (not like our SSR's) and performs/handles with no disappointment to me. I like the fact that it is a "sleeper".
 

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GM Moving FAST

To RedTN.SSR;

You have made some valid points up there but then I tend to disagree with some of your comments also. Yes, I too have sensed over the years that GM needed fresher styling and much better products ... and not just good vehicles but Best in Class!

Nevertheless, I think GM has turned the corner in the last few years with fresher styles and more innovative products. I can name a lot of new GM products, which I think are very strong contenders for Best in Class or already are! Take a look at the huge number of new products that all the GM brands have out already and what is in store for release in the next several months ahead. (Do I need to list them all for you?)

Your comments were "GM has rebates in my area right now that are $8,000 off on Trailblazers, $9,000 off on Silverado's, $3,500 off on SSR's, and $10,000 off on a white 2004 white Corvette convertible. Rebates like this occur only when vehicles aren't selling and manufacturers have to offer incentives." Very true but, it is a very competive market and hard selling times and this rebate game is played by most every car company out there and yes Chrysler and Ford too. Heck even the brand new Ford truck is having a hard time in this tougher market, thus NO surprises here!

So why are there rebates and large discounts for the Corvette and SSR? It should be quite obvious to everyone and you too! Heck with all the media hype for the all-new C-6 Corvette and the new introduction of the big 6.0 L 390 HP engine in the SSR for 05 what would you do if you were GM and trying to sell the remaining "outdated C-5 Corvette" stock and other left over vehicles?

I for one am glad GM is taking the bold steps of introducing more new vehicles than any other auto builder! I can't wait to see the new models and oh yes don't forget the other retro vehicle “HHR” High Heritage Roof which is due out in 06.

I for one want to say A BIG Thank You to GM for taking the high risks and for giving us the awesome SSR!
 

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I agree

I have to agree with you Marc. I'm not saying the SSR is perfect but I believe it is a great cruiser. I love the styling and when I saw the prototype in 2000 I never thought GM would build it. I am so glad they did. So far as the "cheesy interior" goes I have had many people look inside and say "that interior is awesome." One of my friends that I met when I first started taking the SSR to cruises says that the interior is his favorite part of the SSR. So far as the power and speed goes, if GM had wanted to build a racer they would probably have made the body out of fiberglass and made it weigh a lot less. I'm glad they didn't. I think the weight adds to the ride and stability and probably makes it a lot safer. All in all, not including a few little nit picking things, I am more than satisfied with the SSR.I have to say tho that the dealers didn't help with their price gouging, but there was nothing I could do about that.
 

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Right ON!

lloger I have to agree with you 100% !!!!!

People love the interior of the SSR! Even at nighttime people have noticed the amber "theater" lighting that comes from under the rear view mirror and cascades down onto and reflects off of the brushed aluminum throughout the interior. Who would ever thought that GM would have given the interior that much extra thought? GM says it will be bringing out more added options to keep the SSR fresh! I for one can't wait to see them! :thumbs
 

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2 more cents

From ealier posts it is apparent that I believe Toyota produces good stuff and Lexus excellent products (public agrees as they were rated #1 recently)....

WTS, my spousal companion and I spent the weekend with another couple on a bit of a 400 plus mile road trip. We took the SSr and they their SC430. The four of us traded off as we went along. My buddy's wife made an interesting observation.... roof on the SSr is practically the same as the SC430.... the build quality is in the same league but some of the details on the SSr are not well thought out or constructed.... (she obsessed about the passenger side cup holder for toooooo long)..... what was interesting is that, before the trip was over, she suggested to him that they dump the SC430 for a SSr because she could at least go to the grocery store on the way home from the golf club and that they could tow their boat with it too (we towed their boat with the SSr)... he emailed me this morning that the SC430 is gone Friday as he is picking up an Asphalt '04 SSr..... they felt the SSr is sort of like a SC430 with a big trunk and, frankly, I concur..... BTW, the SC430 is smooth but does not drive really any better than our SSr's and the 'o5 will have better performance.....

:cool
 
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I agree!

I agree with Redtn.SSR all the way! Ford and Dodge is wiping up in the performance maket! I too have been a loyal GM customer since 1962 BUT the reyro Mustang is looking really sweet with it's power options! Com'on GM, wake up! :thumbs :flag
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks Fred.

Fredfryguy, Thanks for the letter of support. Needless to say I have been pummeled severely since I was brash enough to "dis" the General. If there is anyone on this site who has "earned" the right to criticize to GM I think it may be me. I have owned 42 GM trucks and cars since 1963 (first was a turbo-charged Olds Jetfire, anyone remember those?). Currently own 6 GM products valued at over $100,000 dollars sitting in my drive and garage. In 1990 I was "preparing" for retirement and invested a chunk of cash in GM stock at $40 a share. Here it is 2004 and my GM retirement nest egg is still at $40 a share. Take inflation into account for those 14 yrs. since I bought the stock and my $40 per share is now worth around $12 per share. I remember when GM had a 48% Share of Market in auto & truck sales (late 1970's). When Bob Lutz came to GM about 2 yrs. ago GM's share of market had dropped to 28.5% range. There were such high hopes with Lutz "on board" that all the GM high execs. starting wearing a 30 button on their lapels to signify GM's goal of increasing their SOM to 30%. Guess what, in those 2 yrs. GM's SOM has DECREASED down to the 27.5% range. Those execs. no longer wear that 30 lapel pin anymore! I love my SSR, I'm a GM loyalist, but I CAN see the forest for the trees. GM is letting competition eats it's lunch, especially in the performance market. Marc says that rebates are part of the business. NOT if you've got a product that the buyers are clamoring for. That's why 300C's, Dodge Magnums, SRT-10's, Ford Lightnings, Honda Odysseys, Toyota Sienna vans(mini-vans, that's another topic that GM dropped the ball on that I won't get into at this time) are being sold without major rebates. GM keeps churning out a lot of products that customers just aren't excited about. Halo cars like the SSR, GTO, Corvette, CTS-V are sold in such small numbers that they aren't intended to be money makers, they are intended to get buyers into the showrooms. I hope I haven't offended anyone one with my rants but I just get so upset when I see what the competition IS doing and I know what GM could and should be doing. The Hemi plant in Mexico is running 7 days a wk., 24 hrs. a day, pumping out the mystical HEMI. Why isn't Chevy pushing a 454 or a 502 Big Block campaign. I can see the ad now, "That thing got a Big Block in it"? That would be music to this Bowtie lover's heart!
 
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Wouldn't an All Wheel Drive SSR be nice?

I toured the Birth Place of our trucks in July of 03 and was told then, that there was a bigger motor coming "next year" and that "that will be the one to get". I too am tired of the game the Mfgs. play with coming out with small motors first, or just hardtops, then here come the convertibles (Beetle, Mini Cooper), Turbos etc. I too am anxious for a 390 H.P. but why couldn't that have been an option from the very beginning like the Muscle car era when you had a choice of motors? ANSWER- This keeps the consumer coming back, but also ticks off a lot of people. I finalized a deal today trading my SSR next month for an H2 SUT and am loosing over $10,000 for 7000 miles of fun with my SSR. An awful expensive price to pay, but think this will be the last time I play the "comeback and buy another" game with the car Mfgs. I think the SSR is a perfect example of why this build plan SHOULD NOT BE DONE AGAIN. Loads of unsold 04 trucks, with most buyers awaiting the "improved" model. Incentives will come, current owners will loose more and more $$$ on their trucks. Not fun. :reddevil Yes, Chrysler did it right offering the Hemi from the beginning in the 300C and Magnum , but I would only want one with the All Wheel Drive option which is just now coming available. Wouldn't an All Wheel Drive SSR be nice?
 

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Toe to Toe?

RedTn.SSR,

Hey, we can go toe to toe if you like... I have bought at least as many GM vehicles as you (ok more) in a much shorter period of time. (so you aren't the only one that has earned the right to bash GM) I have purchased many new GM cars from 1973 (454 Corvette) 75 Vette, 76, 77 Ford Thunderbird (opps the only Ford I ever bought) 78 Vette, 79, a 4 year hold then on and off every other year until 1989 then 2 every year until 1994 where I then started to purchase 4 vehicles a year and even a couple were at 5 a year until present!

You then started to trash GMs poor stock values by saying..."In 1990 I was "preparing" for retirement and invested a chunk of cash in GM stock at $40 a share. Here it is 2004 and my GM retirement nest egg is still at $40 a share. Take inflation into account for those 14 yrs. since I bought the stock and my $40 per share is now worth around $12 per share." It is easy for me to say but perhaps if you had sold your GM stock when it was at 48, 56, 65 or how about when GM hit 94.00 + a share you could have been much further ahead then you are right now. Ok ok, most of us probably lost a lot in the stock market over the years... so I think we can stop this bashing and ranting here... It just seems to me that you constantly want to rehash bad after bad or mistake after mistake.

As I said before; I do happen to agree with you on many of your points you have made here but again I much prefer to focus on the "positive" direction GM is heading in than trying to rehash over and over again and again GMs poor forsight and many past mistakes.


... Just some of my thoughts here at the end of a very long long day...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Marc, I'll Stop My Rants.

Marc, I'll stop my ranting but my last question to you is: I quote quantifiable facts and figures on GM's stock prices and you call it bashing. I call it quoting the truth. Numbers don't lie and they speak for themselves. That is not bashing. You may not like what they are but please don't say someone is bashing just because the numbers aren't what you (or I) would like for them to be. Why didn't I sell GM when it was higher? Because I fell for their line of BS in their annual reports that everything was rosey and hunkie dorey and their sales and profits were going to increase and so would the stock price! That's why! Guess we all should have 20/20 hindsight. Are you by any chance a GM employee? Just wondered.
 

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Shareholder Value?

Like many of us, I too bemoan the old GM (particularly the litany which should include things like bad labor relations; poorly designed and built products; horrible dealer relations et cetera that resulted in the deterioration of one of America's finer companies which, in turn, was reflected a precipitous decline both market share and in stock price performance). :nono

The new General is much better but is FAR from perfect. The good news is GM is trying harder and improvements are apparent in most camps but, unfortunately, there are still too many momentary lapses for those of us that either do business with them or follow their financial results to give them much more than a strong passing grade (i.e. C plus). :cool

The future remains to be seen but is theirs for the taking… was in China a few weeks ago and have to say they are knocking the socks of most everyone… all we have to do now is get them to focus on getting our prop rod problem remedied (my buddy at Magna had his re-made with a graphite shaft> very cool), this halo vehicle properly priced and configured (let me order heated seats without the suffering the usury of the 1SB package) so that it is the hallmark we all know it is out of dealer inventory and onto the road! :leaving

:seeya
 

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RedTN.SSR

Let me say that I truly believe no one here is looking to bash anyone for his or her personal thoughts and beliefs. That being said let me try to sum this up which will probably be my last response to this thread.

Yes, you did quote quantifiable fact and figures on GM’s stock prices and you called it “… quoting the truth and that numbers don’t lie and they speak for themselves.” I might agree with you whole-heartedly here but then there are other set of numbers to show that GM stock had been performing well also. Was not GM stock at 55 just a little while ago and 65 before that and so on and so forth? We all know we can use any set of numbers to prove our own paticular points of view correct?

So if you ask me (and you haven’t) I would have told you to do what I did, I sold at 62 and waited till it dropped and then bought back in (didn’t it go to 30 a few times?) and then I recently sold mine at 52 ½ and now I am waiting for the stock to bottom out and then I will buy back in again. I also cost average by buying stocks every week adjusting to fit my own tolerance levels. The volatile cycles never ends in this crazy world of stock markets as it was so well proven to us over the past few years. You have to be prepared to risk what you can only tolerate to lose. I only wish I had sold all my GM stock when it was at 94+ when I had the opportunity. I also had believed like you that most of GM’s yearly annual reports were very accurate and true in showing positive markets trends.

Certainly no one can predict how the markets will perform. I don’t want to delve into you personal investment strategies however one can certainly lose if you buy high then sell low. Far as I can tell you haven’t lost anything because you haven’t sold yet. I would wait for the next wave of higher stock prices and perhaps consider selling some of them off. What I have learned is if you wait long enough the stocks will surely rise again just like the sun they will surely set/fall at some point in time too.

In conclusion, I see you are a SSR Pit Crew member; I think you should have the ability to view profiles and if you were to see mine you would see that I am just an average employee. I use my real name in there unlike some I have seen. I feel more comfortable and prefer to respond to someone that uses a real name rather than just a factitious screen name. (Take no offence) I know that your thoughts and comments are not unique and that they have been aired/shared many times before on here and other forums and with the General you speak so kindly of.

I can only hope that this type of forum will spark the right imagination and inspire those creative minds within GM and motivate the big bosses to take higher risks and have the courage to bring out the best GM has to offer!

I truly wish you the best of luck in your SSR ownership and in your future retirement years.
:flag
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Marc, Now that I see you ARE a GM employee there's no wonder why you stated that you had bought more GM vehicles in a shorter period of time than I had. Hell, if I had the GM discounts and buying programs that are available to you I probably would have bought than you have. So it ain't no "apples to apples comparison". I'm a joe blow GM customer who buys cars at the retail stealerships. As my first post stated "this is just my opinion, and I could be wrong". As the old saying goes; "opinions are like as*-holes, everybody has one and the other guy's usually stinks"! I wish you and the General well and do whatever you can do to get that GM price back-up. That will make both of us happy!
 

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True

LOL ....Somehow I just knew that you were going to say that... :lol

Yes, I do get a good discount... However.... I still have to work very hard and pay the BIG BUCKS for them too... $$$$$ :yesnod


PS wish I could get the same perks as our executives get ;)
 
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