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Discussion Starter #1
I just joined to get some help on a crank no start when hot problem on my 05. I have dissassembled the fuse box and found no problems. I reinstalled and found that when it will not crank relay 42 is not getting a ground signal. That pin in the fuse box is not supplied by the copper trace wires in the box. I am now wondering if it may be the ECU since it is located in the engine bay. Any ideas???
 

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One of the SoCal Nuts
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I just joined to get some help on a crank no start when hot problem on my 05. I have dissassembled the fuse box and found no problems. I reinstalled and found that when it will not crank relay 42 is not getting a ground signal. That pin in the fuse box is not supplied by the copper trace wires in the box. I am now wondering if it may be the ECU since it is located in the engine bay. Any ideas???
Give us an idea of where you are located and there may be someone close who can help out with your trouble shooting.
 
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I just joined to get some help on a crank no start when hot problem on my 05. I have dissassembled the fuse box and found no problems. I reinstalled and found that when it will not crank relay 42 is not getting a ground signal. That pin in the fuse box is not supplied by the copper trace wires in the box. I am now wondering if it may be the ECU since it is located in the engine bay. Any ideas???
Relay 42 would not be related to a no crank concern. Relay 42 is grounded by ECM. This supplies power to the injectors, coils and the heated O2 sensors - this relay should be energized (grounded) in not only the start position but the run position also! The crank signal from the ignition feeds though fuse #20. I have used my ammeter as jumper wire to fuse #20 to make a car crank with key on.
It seems as though your ECM is asleep or dead. The ECM is powered though the ignition switch. Have you tried to communicate with the ECM when problem occurs - or no scanner? It is entirely possible that the ECM is shutting down because of something simple. For example You might have a bad ignition switch or bad battery connection (positive or negative) or somewhere else.

Do you notice any other problems - no check engine light, guage sweep, do the headlights seem dim or go dim as you try to crank etc.?

I would suggest another possible test

Check fuse #20 (crank fuse) in underhood fuse box for voltage when it will not crank -
I would also suggest checking all fuses for the proper voltage when problem is acting up with ignition in proper position as noted on the chart enclosed.

The enclosed charts that I made that show which fuses are supplied power from ignition switch (yellow highlight) and all of the other fuses also. Check all fuses with a voltmeter for 12 volts - not visually.

It might seem like a difficult task but once you find a good ground you should be able to check each fuse box in about 10 minutes.

Let us know if you notice anything else not working or the results from this test
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I am in the Portland, Oregon area. The engine cranks it just won't start. Once it cools down it will start no problem. When it cranks but will not start relay 42 has no ground signal and fuses 28,29,33,34,35 and 36 have no power. When it will start all fuse voltage is above 12V DC. I do not have a scanner and I do not have a wiring schematic. I am a little concerned about probing pins becasause I don't want to fry any of the controllers in the system.
 

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I am having an issue - so is KellyO
We both have 2006's

I haven't looked into the mini fuses

I am keying on Relay 8567 (fuel pump)
I have been switching it with the other 2 8567's (A/C & Horn I think)
I keep getting Kate started but I don't feel secure enough to drive anywhere.

I spoke with Dick today (dictator) - at his suggestion, my next step is to check the negative battery ground and the rest of the body grounds.
 

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One of the SoCal Nuts
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Good Luck to both of you.
 
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I am in the Portland, Oregon area. The engine cranks it just won't start. Once it cools down it will start no problem. When it cranks but will not start relay 42 has no ground signal and fuses 28,29,33,34,35 and 36 have no power. When it will start all fuse voltage is above 12V DC. I do not have a scanner and I do not have a wiring schematic. I am a little concerned about probing pins becasause I don't want to fry any of the controllers in the system.
Get with Dinerman for the deal of the century on his Ultimate Key flash drive.
All the manuals and much much more.
 

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I am in the Portland, Oregon area. The engine cranks it just won't start. Once it cools down it will start no problem. When it cranks but will not start relay 42 has no ground signal and fuses 28,29,33,34,35 and 36 have no power. When it will start all fuse voltage is above 12V DC. I do not have a scanner and I do not have a wiring schematic. I am a little concerned about probing pins becasause I don't want to fry any of the controllers in the system.
Please refer to the charts I sent earlier - you will notice that the fuses you mentioned are powered by relay 42.
You never replied if the check engine light would come with the key on engine off when problem is acting up.
If NO, you may have a problem with the ECM not powering up.

If YES the check engine light is coming on key on engine off. I believe you have a problem in the fuse box --
You may have missed the broken part of the wire -- I have attached the diagram that Ed in FLA had posted a couple of years ago showing where the wire in the fuse box breaks. I think this picture speaks for itself
You will note that this broken wire will prevent relay 42 from grounding therefore it does not energize and does not supplying power to the fuses you mentioned.

Let us know what you find out.

HEY CASH -- how about starting a new thread with a better description of your problem.
Or do I as recommended earlier on this thread and test (WITH A VOLTMETER) all the fuses (including the rear fuse box) when the problem occurs and post the results.
 

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Numerous post on this subject related to the broken wire in the fuse box. Won't start when hot, engine cools down cranks right up, Trace back to that broken wire.
 

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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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WOW---COINCIDENCE---- I say the routine Fuse Box problem. I helped a Gentleman yesterday in Forney with an Aqua Blur. I put ED's Jumper in the fuse Box and it fired right up and got him home. I gave him Dragon2U's number to see about a repair. I thought it was him until I saw Portland.

Nick
 

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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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Aqua Blur 05, Welcome from Forney Texas!!! You will discover that you have found the BEST FORUM ever! -----Consider going to "Tools" in the red banner, click on "User CP" go to "Your Profile" then click "Edit Your Details". Then, whenever you "post" something, it will show in the left column under your name, like the rest of us, and we will know where you are and what you drive. Then when you have a problem, someone close by might be able to help out.

--Also if you haven't yet, go to "FOURMS", "SSRFanatics News & Polls", "New Member section" and introduce Yourself!

Nick & Kathy
 

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I just joined to get some help on a crank no start when hot problem on my 05. I have dissassembled the fuse box and found no problems. I reinstalled and found that when it will not crank relay 42 is not getting a ground signal. That pin in the fuse box is not supplied by the copper trace wires in the box. I am now wondering if it may be the ECU since it is located in the engine bay. Any ideas???
The fuse box wire "break" on 05/06 is very difficult to find with out magnifying glass and knowledge of where to look.

This "break" was not found by GM it was found by Art Bonadies and Marty Florida Chapter "East Coast Mafia". They duplicated engine temperature by isolating fuse box four quadrants, slowly raising temp until same as SSR while tracking on oscilloscope each quadrant.

When operating temp was reached, after a few minutes, quadrant 4 dropped on oscilloscope from 12 volts to 3 volts, Bingo!

Isolated the wire, came up with Fix!. Reroute and place wire.

We tried tracking vin# to see if there was a pattern, NOT!

So, you can buy NEW fuse box, if you can find one, which protentional has same problem or get repaired for $100.00 including postage.

More on SSR How to Library: https://onedrive.live.com/?id=3EF39D9F5ADCE5E5!853&cid=3EF39D9F5ADCE5E5

Ed Borland aka ED in Fl has a emergency Fuse Box jumper that you can purchase and carry in your R.

Also check Ground to ECM, located on frame. Facing Drivers side windshield, look down between radiator and engine, Drivers side and you will see ground for ECM. Check, Clean and tighten if need be.

There are 16 Grounds on 05/06 SSR

Dicktator

1. Broken wire.
2. Ground for ECM
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I cleaned the ECM ground but it did not correct the problem. I did view all of the copper trace wires with a magnifying glass and anything that looked suspicious I pried on to see if it was still connected. I did not find a copper trace wire that connected to the relay 42 pin 85. Is there a chance you have a picture of it so I can isolate it. My current suspicion is the PTCM. And thank you to all of the folks who have commented. Great community.
 

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I cleaned the ECM ground but it did not correct the problem. I did view all of the copper trace wires with a magnifying glass and anything that looked suspicious I pried on to see if it was still connected. I did not find a copper trace wire that connected to the relay 42 pin 85. Is there a chance you have a picture of it so I can isolate it. My current suspicion is the PTCM. And thank you to all of the folks who have commented. Great community.
Not sure what you are calling a PTCM
03-04 class 2 data only used a PCM (powertrain control module)
05-06 class 2 and high speed CAN use ECM (engine control module) and a separate TCM (transmission control module) if automatic

I am going to assume you mean ECM since this is what grounds (energizes) relay 42

Here are some diagrams which will help - let me know if you need assistance using them. I am trying to leave my downtown office before traffic gets bad.

I would focus on circuit 448 if check engine light comes on key on engine off. You never responded to this question.

I would check integrity of power (don't forget rear fuse box power supply to ECM) and ground if no check engine light

NOTE: I always test the integrity of the power supply and ground to any module by loading those circuits with a light larger that a test light

Let me know if you need any other diagrams or information - I will have some time at home this evening after dinner (about 8 EST)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I am sorry I missed the Check engine light question. Yes the light comes on as normal when the no start condition is active. I have removed the ECM and would like to send it out to be repaired. Are there any updates that should be done at the same time? I have a quote from ModuleExperts in Jacksonville FL of 149.00 to repair my module.
 

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Do have a Magnacharger? If so this might help. About 6 weeks ago I driving on the highway at 70 m/h and after about 20 miles it just stopped like no gas, pulled over and won't start,dead battery. call for tow. charged battery 6 hours later driving and after about 5 miles same thing, like ran out of gas,but full tank,I filled up in the morning first time this year, pulled over and restarted and went for a couple of miles, same thing 5 times ,then would not start call for tow again.get home in garage and starts for about 5 minutes and stalls. didn't want to get tow#3. checking things lie gas cap, fuel pump, battery, fuse box and changed ignition switch. read about fuse box problems and banging my head against the wall for weeks
.(don't make me take it in for repairs) and get a couple thousand $dollar bill.
I was looking for codes but none came up. getting ready to empty full gas tank to change fuel pump started it up looking for codes with the hood up and I see a little smoke from engine, shut off and look nothing ,start up again and see smoke again, this time coming from fuse holder from powering MAGNA_VOLT and pulled it apart as it was melting. The fuse is a 30amp I believe, I can't tell it burned and all I can see is a 3 and I checked the Installation Instructions and can't find fuse size anywhere. So I replaced the fuse hold and 30 amp fuse going to the intercooler/magnavolt. Powers fuel pump for magnachager.
That explains why NO CODES, after market supercharger. Every thing seems good now, driving again last couple of days and no issues. After 12 years of washing the engine, must have got moisture in fuse holder.
CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF 30AMP IS RIGHT FOR MAGNA_VOLT PLEASE???
Hope this helps for KELLYO and CASH
JOHN
 

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Not sure what you are calling a PTCM
03-04 class 2 data only used a PCM (powertrain control module)
05-06 class 2 and high speed CAN use ECM (engine control module) and a separate TCM (transmission control module) if automatic

I am going to assume you mean ECM since this is what grounds (energizes) relay 42

Here are some diagrams which will help - let me know if you need assistance using them. I am trying to leave my downtown office before traffic gets bad.

I would focus on circuit 448 if check engine light comes on key on engine off. You never responded to this question.

I would check integrity of power (don't forget rear fuse box power supply to ECM) and ground if no check engine light

NOTE: I always test the integrity of the power supply and ground to any module by loading those circuits with a light larger that a test light

Let me know if you need any other diagrams or information - I will have some time at home this evening after dinner (about 8 EST)
@Autoprof: Is there some of the ECM information that is different with a 6 speed? Is there a different picture for that situation? I have never been very food at chasing though the manuals but I noticed that you mentioned a TCM for automatics and @Aqua Blur 05 shows a 6 speed in his profile.
 

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I am sorry I missed the Check engine light question. Yes the light comes on as normal when the no start condition is active. I have removed the ECM and would like to send it out to be repaired. Are there any updates that should be done at the same time? I have a quote from ModuleExperts in Jacksonville FL of 149.00 to repair my module.
Personally I would back probe ECM connector C1 pin 10, white/black wire with a voltmeter to ground. Should show some voltage less than 0.5 v without problem present. Absolute 0 volts would indicate a bad back probe. If ecm is the problem this voltage should jump to close to 12 volts when problem is acting up if computer is opening ground. If it drops to 0 volts when problem is acting up problem is before ecm. Repeat test at bottom fuse box same wire.
I started at ecm because I believe it should be easier to access than bottom of fuse box.

Just my .02
 
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