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DFW TX Crew
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Detailing, Paint Correction, General Car Care Discussion

Thought I'd start a detailing/car care thread, but there's sooooooo much involved I wouldn't even know where to begin.:confused

As a Prossional High End Detailer of 10+ years I thought it would be a good idea to have a Car Care section to discuss all the various aspects of Detailing, Paint Correction (swirl/scratch removal) and General Car Care topics....

Topics to get started::thumbs

Interior Detailing
Exterior Detailing
Paint Correction
Wax, Sealants, Coatings
Compounds, Polishes, Paint Cleaner, AIO's
Buffer Machines, Orbital, Rotary, Buffer Pads
Wheels, Rims and Tires
Engine Bay Detailing
Undercarriage Cleaning
Techniques
Products n Brands
Tools, Brushes, MF Towels


I'm sure I'm missing some....

Lots of variables involved and many ways to accomplish the same results. :yesnod

Also lots of bad info out there and many brands make up crap to market there products as better then it really is and people believe it unfortunately. I know from experience...

10 detailers will tell you 10 different ways to do it with 10 different products.

:lurk:lurk:lurk

:yellow:
 

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Totally agree with Joshvettes observations.
Here's a few places you can check online:

Paint Care & Detailing - The Enthusiasts guide to detailing

Autogeekonline Auto Detailing Forum

http://truthindetailing.com/Forum/

Autopia Auto Detailing Forum

Autopia Car Care Products - Car Detailing Supplies, Car Wax, Car Polishers, Auto Detailing

Car Care Forums: Meguiar's Online - News & Announcements

Home | Car Care Auto Detailing Products - Auto Magic

COMPOUNDS, POLISHES AND GLAZES SORTED BY CUTTING ABILITY

10 – Compounds (Most Aggressive)
3M SUPER DUTY RUBBING COMPOND HEAVY CUT 39004
MEGUIAR’S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL DIAMOND CUT COMPOUND 2.0 VERY HEAVY CUT #85

8
MEGUIAR’S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL COMPUND POWER CLEANER HEAVY CUT #84
3M PERFECT-IT III EXTRA CUT RUBBING COMPOUND 05936
MEGUAIR’S MIRROR GLAZE HEAVY CUT CLEANER #4

7
3M IMPERIAL MICRO FINISHING COMPOUND MEDIUM CUT 39001
MEGUIAR’S MIRROR GLAZE MEDIUM-CUT CLEANER #1
3M PERFECT-IT III RUBBING COMPOUND 05933

6
MEGUIAR’S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL DUAL ACTION CLEANER POLISH MEDIUM CUT #83

5
3M PERFECT-IT II RUBBING COMPOUND FINE CUT 39002
MEGUIAR’S MIRROR GLAZE FINE-CUT CLEANER #2
3M ONE STEP CLEANER WAX, MEDIUM OXIDATION REMOVER 39066
MENZERNA INTENSIVE POLISH
3M PERFECT-IT SWIRL MARK REMOVER DARK CARS 39009
3M PERFECT-IT SWIRL MARK REMOVER LIGHT CARS 39109
MEGUIAR’S MEDALLION PAINT CLEANER #97
MEGUIAR’S SCRATCH-X #108

4 – Polishes
MEGUIAR’S BODY SCRUB A10
MEGUIAR’S DEEP CRYSTAL PAINT CLEANER #30
MEGUIER’S QUICK DETAILER #66
MEGUIER’S SPEED GLAZE #80
BLACK FIRE DEEP GLOSS POLISH

3
MEGUIAR’S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL SWIRL FREE POLISH LIGHT CUT #82
MEGUIAR’S MIRROR GLAZE SWIRL REMOVER #9
3M PERFECT-IT III MACHINE GLAZE 05937
3M FINESSE-IT II MACHINE POLISH 39003
3M FINESSE-IT II FINISHING MATERIAL 05928
MENZERNA FINAL POLISH

2 - Glazes
MEGUIAR’S BODY SHOP PROFESSIONAL HAND POLISH VERY LIGHT CUT #81
3M PERFECT-IT III TRIZACT MACHINE GLAZE 05930
3M IMPERIAL MACHINE GLAZE 05991
3M ONE STEP CLEANER WAX, LIGHT OXIDATION REMOVER 39006
3M PERFECT-IT III FINISHING GLAZE 05941
GEPC

1 – “Non-Abrasives”
MEGUIAR’S MIRROR GLAZE SHOW CAR GLAZE #7
MEGUIAR’S MIRROR GLAZE MACHINE GLAZE #3
3M IMPERIAL HAND GLAZE 39007
BLACKFIRE ALL FINISH PAINT PROTECTION
 

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DFW TX Crew
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Great info.

I used to be on Autopia a long time ago and remember when TruthinDetailing first started, same name Joshvette. All those site have great insight.
 

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DFW TX Crew
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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
A couple before after shots of my front fender after about 1 1/2 hours with the rotary and 2-3 steps compounding and polishing. Very very hard clear coat makes for more effort in removing these 13 year old swirls.... still have another step to finish down with an orbital buffer then wax, seal and protect the new finish.

There's many variables in removing swirls, but mainly, 1 the hardness or softness of the paint and 2 how bad or deep/shallow the swirls are.

You can have hard paint with very light/shallow swirls that seem to buff out easy or soft paint with very deep swirls that don't buff out as well. Best scenario is soft paint with light swirls, worst scenaio is very hard paint with very deep swirls (which is what I have)

Now I said all that for a reason, to say this..... it may not take you 3 steps like it took me to achieve the results you want.

My 3 steps after claybaring were
Rotary machine:
1 Heavy Cutting Step: Wool pad with Meg's 105 compound x 2 (to remove deeper scratches and most swirls)
1-2 Cutting Step: Purple foam wool pad with Meg's 105 (to remove most swirls but not deep scratches)
3 Polishing Step: White LC pad with Menzerna SIP (super intensive polish to remove buffer trails/haziness from previous steps)

Speeds on the rotary are typically 1500 rpms to cut and once the compounds broke down/worked in, then down to 600-800 rpms to jewel the surface for all steps.

Next step will be another finish down step with an Orbital machine and a cutting pad and medium polish.

If you don't have a rotary and only have an orbital then none of this will not apply.




 

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This is so cool
We need to find the way to best look after them.
If you are like me, I sort of do the wash and run at 7am to the car show!

Mind you, I am also the anal guy that does the cue tip swab on every hinge several times a year! HaHa!
I have the super cleanest daily driver ever on the road! My doctor says - aw whatever!
He is quite amazed!
I really would like to know the best way to look after them, in my case, I can do this in the down months
I would be doing this in a heated garage - let's say 60 dgrees
You guys are great!
 

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DFW TX Crew
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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I think the main thing to understand with properly maintaining the R's is the two bucket washing process.

If anyone's not familiar, the two bucket washing system (I actually use 3 buckets) is a washing process designed to trap and isolate dirt and debris in one bucket while always using clean soapy water on the vehicle so that you're not dragging dirt particles across the finish causing micro scratches known as swirls. Also a good idea to spray off each mitt after each use.

1 bucket for rims, tires, wheel wells
1 bucket with clean soapy water
1 bucket with water to get dirty
1 electric leaf blower to dry
QD wipe down

I also use 4-5 wash mitts juuuuust incase one get dirt on it it's only touching the car 2-3 times instead of every single time I go over it during the washing process and that even further reduces the risk of swirls.

After you finish you can also take the spray nozzle off the hose and let the water flow over the vehicle which will basically drain itself and save you a little drying time. After that I use an electric leaf blower (rated over 220mph) to blow off the excess water and out of all the cracks, jambs, mirrors and such. Then a QD (quick detailer) spray and wipe down and you're good to go.

Prerinse and soapy foam soak down affter 1400 mile trip....



Two buckets with 4-5 wash mitts



QD wipe down with a good clean MF towel makes it look nice

 

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Joshvette, Just wanted you to know that it's awfully good of you to share your wisdom, tricks and tips with us. This should prove to be a great thread for all of us.

Do you have any experience with Dr. Color Chip or Scracth Wizard products.
 

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DFW TX Crew
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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Joshvette, Just wanted you to know that it's awfully good of you to share your wisdom, tricks and tips with us. This should prove to be a great thread for all of us.

Do you have any experience with Dr. Color Chip or Scracth Wizard products.
Sure thing. I do have a little experience with Dr. Color Chip, I only used it once on a clients car at his request.

I think it's really designed more for car that have a lot of pitting or chips and really small chips that are too small for touch up paint like peppered and sand blasted front ends.

I thought it worked well to remove the white color from the chips but you could still see the pitting indentions but it looked much better. It doesn't fill in the area missing paint very well, but it did fill in the color making everything less noticeable if that makes sense.

Also to note on black paints using a permanent sharpy marker is an easy trick to take out the little tiny white dots on very small chips. Touch up paint tends to blob cause it's so thick and the chip is so small.
 

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Pretty much I hose Kate down, wash one side (clean mitt) - rinse all over
Wash the other side - rinse all over
Use #2 mitt - clean wheels and wheel wells
If it is hot - drive inside - do the dry, squeegie or micro towel
I try to do this in the morning while in the shade.

This isn't rocket science - if the sun is coming about I am getting into the garage - finish up there.
The rest of this, listen to Josh or others.
 

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DFW TX Crew
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Pretty much I hose Kate down, wash one side (clean mitt) - rinse all over
Wash the other side - rinse all over
Use #2 mitt - clean wheels and wheel wells
If it is hot - drive inside - do the dry, squeegie or micro towel
I try to do this in the morning while in the shade.

This isn't rocket science - if the sun is coming about I am getting into the garage - finish up there.
The rest of this, listen to Josh or others.
Naturally something you've done all your life you think is a no brainer but there is definitely a proper way to correctly wash the vehicle. I didn't believe it till someone showed me the difference then I was sold...

Once swirls are removed and the finish near perfect the Two Bucket washing method is key to everything. Using one bucket keeps the water and mitts dirty and that dirt just gets rubbed around the finish especially if you use the same mitts on the lower panels and same bucket for the wheels as you do the car. I know you probably do the wheels last but all those oils and grease residues stick in that bucket and get added to the mix next wash.

Most SSR's are prob garaged and rarely driven so it may not be as dirty but try this process on your daily driver after it's good and dirty and you'll become a believer too. :amen:

I wish I had some pics of the dirty bucket and clean bucket but can't find any right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
What is a Clay Bar? The clay bar is specialized polymer abrasive clay designed to shear off and lift out contamination that has become bonded to the surface. Claying will not remove scratches.

The baggie trick? After you wash the car, stick you hand in a sandwich baggie and rub it on the surface, you should be able to feel a grit like roughness, that's the bonded contamination that needs to be removed.

How to clay bar the R? Basically you need to thoroughly wash the SSR with a heavy soap mixture. After the car is very clean, you can either use the clean soapy water as a lubricant with the clay or dry it and use a QD (quick detailer) as a lubricant with the clay.

Lubricate the clean surface, flatten the clay in the palm of your hand and rub back and forth several times till the surface is glass smooth in a 2x2 section or panel by panel. Fold the clay in half, flatten and repeat till the whole car is glass smooth again.









This process needs to always be followed up with waxing or sealing the paint. Normally takes about 2 hours from start to finish, including wash time then however long it takes you to wax it.



66 Vette was garaged for 10 years then in the shop for 6 months..... pretty bad.



04 Lamborghini Gallardo, seemed to be in perfect shape, the car was very clean but never waxed and sat in the garage most of it's life.

 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here are some basic Questions and Answers I ripped off my own website, hope I got permission first....:grin2:

Doesn't actually take that long to read I promise. You probably already know most of this stuff too. :wink2:


1. What is Detailing? Detailing takes on many definitions depending on whom you ask. In a nutshell, for me detailing means reconditioning each aspect of the vehicle inside and out to a better then new condition.

2. What is Paint Correction? Paint correction is a specialized, multi step, precision machine polishing process, which microscopically removes fine scratches and abrasions leaving behind a flawless, pure, beautiful paint finish.

3.Can a Deep Scratch be Removed? A general rule of thumb is if you can feel the scratch with your fingernail then it is too deep to be completely removed. However compounding and polishing the damaged area can reduce and minimize the scratch causing it to be less noticeable.

4.What is Two Bucket Washing? Two bucket washing is a specialized washing technique that traps and isolated the dirt particles in one bucket so they do not drag across the finish causing micro scratches known as swirls.

5.What are Swirls? What are commonly referred to as “swirls” or “spider webbing” are in fact micro scratches in the paint finish typically caused by improper washing and drying techniques as well as routine dust offs and wipe downs. Over time these micro scratches accumulate causing a spider web/swirl effect more easily seen in direct sun light.

6.What is a Clay Bar? The clay bar is specialized polymer abrasive clay designed to shear off and lift out contamination that has become bonded to the surface. Claying will not remove scratches.

7. What is the Difference Between a Wax and a Sealant? A traditional wax is a natural product developed typically from carnauba as well as bees wax blended with many other oils and ingredients to make it applicable for protecting your paint finish. Sealants are man made synthetic products typically using polymer, acrylic or water-based resins designed for long lasting paint protection.

8. Do I Really Need to Wax the Clear Coat? Yes, imagine your skin gets sun burned and eventually peels away. Waxing and protecting the finish is like putting on sun block lotion to keep it from burning more severely or quickly. The clear coat does some protecting of the color coat to a certain point but harmful UV rays will still penetrate and deteriorate and eventually break down the clear coat. Waxing and protecting the clear coat will provide a slight but significant barrier between environmental fall out and the sun’s UV rays allowing it to remain healthier longer.

9. How Often Should I Wax my Vehicle? This depends on how often you drive it as well as what type of protection you put on it. Generally on a daily driven vehicle if using a good Carnauba wax product I would re-wax it about every 5-7 weeks. If protecting the finish with a good synthetic sealant product I would re-seal it about every 3-4 months. On vehicles that are rarely driven and garage kept I would reapply every 6 months.

10. What Product Do You Use? I use what I feel are the best of what each brand seems to specialize in. For example some brands seem to excel at making longer lasting durable paint protection products while other brands are by far better when it comes to manufacturing the best compounds and polishes. Therefore I carry many different products and honestly just too many too list. The majority of the products I use are water based and have no petroleum's in them.

11.Can the Paint Texture be Removed? Yes. Only with wet sanding (color sanding) can the texture be re-leveled and flattened enough to remove the “orange peel” effect leaving a more mirror like quality to the finish.

Josh Ottmann of Ottmann Detailing ;)
 

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It is 'funny' how you mention the tip below
I talked to Cash about it a couple of week ago at the Duick car show

The baggie trick? After you wash the car, stick you hand in a sandwich baggie and rub it on the surface, you should be able to feel a grit like roughness, that's the bonded contamination that needs to be removed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
It is 'funny' how you mention the tip below
I talked to Cash about it a couple of week ago at the Duick car show

The baggie trick? After you wash the car, stick you hand in a sandwich baggie and rub it on the surface, you should be able to feel a grit like roughness, that's the bonded contamination that needs to be removed.
What's crazy is that for some reason the fingers and skin don't seem to be able to feel the grit but with the plastic baggie you can??

However if you do the baggie test and it feels glass smooth already then the surface is good and no need to clay. If a person clays a smooth surface they can inadvertantly mare the finish with the clay.
 

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Just my "two cents".........
1. Never use "ANYTHING" but a boar's hair brush with a constant flow of water when you HAVE to wash your vehicle......anything else will trap dirt and scratch the paint's finish.
2. Stay away from the mass produced products from the companies like Meguiar's, Mother's, etc....There are so many much better polishes, waxes, etc...out here that work much better, they will cost more but are worth it.
3. Plenty of web sites out there that explain the "how to"s" of automotive paint care and detailing.....a few are mentioned above.
4. Detailing your paint is not a one step process......those are good for "maybe" your daily driver. To do it right is at least a 4 step process at the minimum....
5. Detailing is not a cheap process.....it includes the right products and the right tools.....
 

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Detailing Thread

Joshvette, this is a great place to post cleaning and detailing tips. I'll offer the following:

(1) Consistent with your statement about some paints being "hard" and some being "soft," detailing techniques will vary from car to car. I've owned a few cars with paint so soft that the polishing techniques I used for hard paint would burn through the clear coat with hardly any effort.

(2) Based on this and experience in clearing up all types of defects, my general rule is to start any paint cleaning or defect correction process with the least aggressive product, working backwards to products that are more aggressive or more abrasive only as needed. For example: cleaner/wax=> cleaner=> polishing compound=> swirl remover=> fine cut polish=> medium cut polish, etc.). Once the defect is cleared, reverse the process to restore the gloss and brilliance to the area.

(3) It does take some experimentation to develop that right combination of products and tools that are appropriate for each car's paint and for correcting defects. Wool pads I reserve for only the most severe defects but even then I might use one with a fine cut polishing compound if the defect is not severe. Conversely, I've successfully used soft foam pads with more aggressive products.

My approach has been to err on the side of caution using less aggressive products and if you're not comfortable trying to remove defects like stubborn acid rain stains in clearcoat (that might require wet sanding), enlist the advice or services of a professional.
 
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