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Alright. My buddies got an 02 Z28 Automatic Camaro with a new y-pipe and cat back exhaust on it. I've got an 05 with the LS2/6 speed combo and exhaust. He's saying that there's no way I can beat him with my truck. Granted, my truck weighs 1000 lbs. more than his car and there's only a 50 or 60 hp difference but still. I've driven both and my truck just seems faster. What do yall think would happen? Thanks for the help yall.
 

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He will take you with the weight advantage!
 

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Nomadken is correct. The extra horsepower is not near enough to overcome the weight disadvantage, assuming both drivers are equally competent.

Even those of us who mod our SSRs have to remember: no matter how much we mod them, a 30 to 35% weight disadvantage means that the SSR will never be a street terror.

Even with a supercharger and lots of complementary mods to support it, someone could do exactly the same to a Camaro and still have thatw eight advantage over you.

In addition, his thermal loading situation is way betteer than yours. So, on a HOT day, he will beat you even harder!

Normally, I advise owners of heavy cars to insist on races that BEGIN at 75 mph. Under high speed conditions, the air drag takes on more importance and weight importance reduces a bit RELATIVELY. However,, that only works when the two cars have similar coefficients of drag. Our SSR's drag coeeficient is bad despite tis sleek appearance, because it has HUGE frontal area, so there is no net gain in that strategy for an SSR.

Race for fun, but don't race for money! :)

Jim G
 

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Hmmm..

Alot depends on the driver, my partner has an 02 Diablo capable of 200mph+ I can usually beat him on a short run, but he blows by me at about 75mph. if your good with the six speed, that gives a little advantage over the automatic, and the five link rear gets better traction, dont give up too soon,
 

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FreddyKaye: The reason that you can stay with the Diablo up to 75 mph is probably that virtually all Italian supercards and superbikes are geared ridiculously tall to support high speed European highway cruising.

1st gear on many Italian supercars is good to 60 to 80 mph. That wouldn't be so bad by itself BUT those engines are also high strung HIGH RPM engines, so unless the owner is willing to fry the clutch each time he/she races, the car ends up struggling to get up into its powerband. Once it does, it stays there through the rest of the gears if the driver shifts it near the rev limit.

Put this all together and the outcome when he races you is predictable:

He struggles to get off the line and through the bottom 2/3 of 1st gear (which means up to at least 40 mph) before he finally hits his powerband. Then, he catches you, and then he flat leaves you sitting as his much lighter weight car, pushed by an engine that produces comparable or maybe even more power than yours starts flying!

When racing an Italian supercar, insist on short races that start from a standing start! :)

The most successful street racer I ever personally heard about was a 120 lb judge's daughter in Minneapolis that back in the 1980s rode a Yamaha RZ350 computer equipped 2-stroke, 350 lb race replica bike. She made a point of racing on Lake Street in the core part of Minneapolis, where street races started from lights and ended maybe 1/8 mile later. No one could touch her.

She had simply done her homework: No self-respecting stud in a built car or bike could wimp away from a challenge from an innocent-appearing small displacement Japanese smoky 2-stroke motorcycle piloted by a tiny gal who liked almost like a young kid. But, with only a 470 all-up weight and a torquey racebred engine, she had the power-to-weight ratio and very low moment of inertia. She smoked em every time.

I bought that bike, and regret having had to sell it.

Jim G
 

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The Bottle

There's lot of room to hide a "bottle"in the back. He he.
 

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"will never be a street terror"

JimG, and others, I value and respect your comments and rationalizations, but have to respectfully disagree with some of it. I have an '05 Automatic, only mod is SuperMaxx headers and it does not react as you have described. From the light, I have yet to be beaten by a Mustang and speeds on one occasion reached 120 mph, but he was in my rearview mirror from the git go. I think a lot depends on the operator, turn off the AC, the TC and put the pedal in the carpet, THEN HANG ON!! Camaros will not race me. I have not raced a souped up car yet, but I expect it will happen. Until then, I will continue to be a street terror in my yellow SSR. :rolleyes:
 

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Yaller Dog: Only the "new" Mustang has the 300 hp V8. The older ones are much lower powered. I can see you beating one of the older ones because you can make the power to weight ratios come out that way, but if you are beating the new ones then
(a) You are a MUCH better driver than the mustang owners are, or
(b) Your 05 SSR is unusually strong, or
(c) The Mustangs you race have a pasenger in them as well as the driver

It's true that the Mustang engines are a little short on torque with their smaller displacement, and maybe their pilots just aren't revving them off the line sufficiently.

Jim G :)
 
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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Jim, the 05 mustang stock can not stay with mine either. 05 headers and a little tune. Have You driven or rode in an 05? It maybe stouter than you think.
 

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Ate an 05 Mustang

Drum roll please..... Yesterday evening I was heading out of Fredericksburg VA, on a four lane road and just caught the red light. I heard a noise to the left of me and behold it was an 05 Mustang revving up his 300 HP sewing machine (I was in the 05). I looked over at him and laughed, he had a very attractive blonde in the car with him (if the Mustang owner reads this, I was much more impressed with your passenger than your car). Anyway, I digress, When the light turned green, He hammered the thing, wheels screeching, (looked like the rear end was sliding), I could see all of this in the rear view mirror of my completely stock 05 6-speed. I took it up to about 80 (the beginning of third gear) and shut it down, he came flying by me like I was sitting still. We both caught the next light, I looked over at him (as if to say, "shall we do this again"), he smiles, gives me a :thumbs and drives off like is is headed to church :lol Oops, it was Sunday, I wonder if racing is a sin :confused

Anyway, can we chalk this up to luck, driver, thermal priority, global warming, whatever, the bottom line is that I beat the pants off of him.... The answer to at least one of the questions on this thread is the 05 SSR smokes the 05 Mustang :lol :lol :lol If the Mustang can beat the Camaro then you are home free :thumbs

This is my story and I am sticking to it :jester :jester
 

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You give me hope

Been afraid to try anything,except on the guys in suvs giving me the look see. I guess they are surprised a grandma can still smoke em'. Think I'll go for bigger game next time :lol :lol :reddevil :angel
 

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raveschi, same thing

happened to me, except no blonde, darn it! I have an automatic '05, but still got the jump on him from the light, we stayed with it to the next light which was a mile. Top speed was 120 mph and he never threatened to catch me. You should have seen his face when he pulled up to the light with his doors blown off. He asked, what you got in that thing? I said it is stock! I love it! :reddevil
 

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Great story except.....

raveschi said:
....... he had a very attractive blonde in the car with him ......., the bottom line is that I beat the pants off of him...... This is my story and I am sticking to it :jester :jester
Great SSR episode. I was waiting for you to finish the story by saying that you beat him one more time, only this time the blonde was riding in your passenger seat!! :lol
 

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BobA: YOur 05 is FAR from stock in terms of power output. Your dyno cruve is strong.

Raveschi: The addition of the passenger to the Mustang was a major disadvantage for him, even if he did not realize it.

Yaller Dog: I don't think your foe knew how to rev his engine properly for a decent start.

Someone get me an actual 05 Mustang DYNO curve. Is Ford inflating the power output, or are those Mustang's THAT peaky (i.e. inadequate low and mid range power to get a decent start)? The raw numbers look "revvy" but not THAT revvy: 300 hp at 5750 and 320 ft lb of torque at 4500.

Or, is Ford being optimistic on their actual CURB (not dry) vehicle weights? They calim 3300 lb, which is lighter than the most recent older model Mustangs.

My SSR scaled at 4639 without a driver or fuel, and mine does NOT have some of the heavier accessories (like the trunk finishing option).

Assume a 175 driver in each, and 1/2 tank of fuel.

Mustang weight = 3300 +175 + 57 =3531 lb

SSR weight = 4639 + 175 + 79 = 4893 lb

Ratio of weight of SSR to Mustang = 4893/3531 = 1.39

Ratio of PEAK power of SSR to Mustang = 390/300 = 1.30

The Mustang should win, unless the low end and mid ange power is THAT weak because of the 4.6 Liter versus 5.7 Liter displacement disadvantage (19%).

With the blonde in the Mustang, the numbers become:

Mustang weight = 3300 +175 + 57 + 140 (Hey, average, not Twiggy, gal with real world purse) = 3671

So, weight ratio SSR/Mustang becomes 4893/3671 = 1.33 (much closer to power ratio).

If I had an ACCURATE, STOCK 05 Mustang dyno curve, and an ACCURATE, STOCK 05 SSR dyno curve, and the gear ratios for the 5-speed Tremec in the Mustang (already have the automatic and 6-speed ratios for the SSR) I could do a simulation race in my software. :)

Jim G
 

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JimGnitecki said:
BobA: YOur 05 is FAR from stock in terms of power output. Your dyno cruve is strong.

Raveschi: The addition of the passenger to the Mustang was a major disadvantage for him, even if he did not realize it.

Yaller Dog: I don't think your foe knew how to rev his engine properly for a decent start.

Someone get me an actual 05 Mustang DYNO curve. Is Ford inflating the power output, or are those Mustang's THAT peaky (i.e. inadequate low and mid range power to get a decent start)? The raw numbers look "revvy" but not THAT revvy: 300 hp at 5750 and 320 ft lb of torque at 4500.

Or, is Ford being optimistic on their actual CURB (not dry) vehicle weights? They calim 3300 lb, which is lighter than the most recent older model Mustangs.

My SSR scaled at 4639 without a driver or fuel, and mine does NOT have some of the heavier accessories (like the trunk finishing option).

Assume a 175 driver in each, and 1/2 tank of fuel.

Mustang weight = 3300 +175 + 57 =3531 lb

SSR weight = 4639 + 175 + 79 = 4893 lb

Ratio of weight of SSR to Mustang = 4893/3531 = 1.39

Ratio of PEAK power of SSR to Mustang = 390/300 = 1.30

The Mustang should win, unless the low end and mid ange power is THAT weak because of the 4.6 Liter versus 5.7 Liter displacement disadvantage (19%).

With the blonde in the Mustang, the numbers become:

Mustang weight = 3300 +175 + 57 + 140 (Hey, average, not Twiggy, gal with real world purse) = 3671

So, weight ratio SSR/Mustang becomes 4893/3671 = 1.33 (much closer to power ratio).

If I had an ACCURATE, STOCK 05 Mustang dyno curve, and an ACCURATE, STOCK 05 SSR dyno curve, and the gear ratios for the 5-speed Tremec in the Mustang (already have the automatic and 6-speed ratios for the SSR) I could do a simulation race in my software. :)

Jim G
OMG Jim, well what if the blonde was carrying additional water weight and the guy had a mullet? The extra hair alone should add 2.57890346 pounds.
You are an informative individual I must say, that's why I love razzin' you.
Cool ride this morning.
OP
 
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