[matjow]

Okay Jim G., I've taken the lead on this research. Our SSRs come with an OEM 14" electric puller cooling fan with curved bladed. Straight blades move more air, but are not as quiet. Curved blades to not move as much air, but are more quiet. The difference between the two seems pretty minimal. If you want to keep the OEM size of a 14" cooling fan and keep the curved blades, to keep in quiet, but you want to increase air flow and cooling capability, then I think I have found the best fan (see link below). http://www.zirgo.com/search.lasso?search=cooling+fan

The ZF14S - 14" 2670 CFM ZIRGO HIGH PERFORMANCE RADIATOR COOLING FAN
MSRP: $169.95 YOUR PRICE: $139.95 appears to be the winner. At a CFM of 2670, it blows away (excuse the pun) the Spal fans, which are advertized as being used in NASCAR cars.

The aftermarket fans will fit without a problem using the universal mounting brackets. However, here is where I need an answer from a GM service tech or an electrician. There are only 2 wires on the aftermarket cooling fans - positive and ground. However, on the OEM cooling fan, there is a 3 wire harness. The 3 wires go all the way from the relay to the fan plug and then to the fan motor. I would assume that 2 out of the 3 wires is also positive and ground - but which 2? What wire is what? Also, what is the third wire for? Can you make a 2 wire aftermarket cooling fan work by somehow addapting it the the 3 wire plug that goes to the relay?

I would assume that all GM cars have this 3 wire cooling fan. So, who is buying these high performance 2 wire cooling fans? There has to be a way to make it work. :confused

 

[beer100]

Dont touch the third wire. :lol

It is possible to wind the core of a motor with two wires instead of one. The core actually has two positive and two ground wires. Both ground wires will be tied together and brought out as a single wire. The other two wires can be powered either alone or together. The motor, and fan, with only a single wire powered will not be able to move as much air as when both wires are powered.

It's exactly like an eight cylinder engine with 4 cylinders shut down.

Another trick that can be done when winding the coils in the motor is that each coil can be wound with a different amount of wire. More loops in a coil makes it stronger. So you could have a motor that has a low speed when the small coil is powered, med when the larger is powered, and high power with both.

 

[beer100]

On the other hand...

Here is the SSR's fan circut.

It shows that the fan itself has some kind of logic built in. This may be nothing more than a fixed level speed control circuit. That can be done very simpley. (read cheeply)

 

[Scheide]

Wait at minute, TIME OUT! We are driving SSR purchased from GM which includes a warrenty which is 36 and 36. Each and all of us have either experienced a hot condition or feel our vehicles are running too hot. This web site is loaded with questions and answers and JimG and others have put a lot of work and investigation into the subject. Evidently Chev. is not reading this site or is not concerned. Now, you are suggesting that we just chuck our OEM fan, invest whatever and move on. I feel GM and Chev. has a responsibility in this matter. How about Chev. replacing the fans with a stronger air flow type which would also reduce the excessive under hood heat. Your thoughts!

 

[woohoo]

:agree

 

[matjow]

I agree!

Start the petition to GM on this web site. I'll sign it. Everyone can sign it (electronically by posting a comment right here) and then we can e-mail it to GM Customer Service.

 

[Scheide]

Matjow: Do you think we could learn anything at the SSR homecoming in Aug.? Maybe some Chev. Engr's. there who could advise us. This would be the place to start a petition. In fact there's more than enough on the fan/hot issue already posted on this site to submit if they will give us an ear.

 

[matjow]

Good Idea

When and where is the homecoming????

 

[JimGnitecki]

It WOULD be great if we could get some comment from GM on the fan and on heat control under the hood in general!

Jim G

 

[Scheide]

Matjow: Where you been? The homecoming has been all over this site. It's in Lansing, MI. at the LCC where our 'R's were made. Scheduled for Aug. 19th. SHould be a lot of fun, tour of plant in am, visits, etc. Then next day, (Sun) on Aug. 20th is the Woodward Dream Cruise held in the Detroit area. You have probably never heard of the above in Tampa but it's a big event up here. Come on up with your 'R' and join in.

 

[beer100]

Absolutly, the first stop if you are having problems is to make a warranty claim.

Now if the system is functoning as designed. There is nothing that the dealer can do, claim wise. Nor is the dealer going to get involved with trying to make modifications. There is a liability involved. In the case of a bad outcome, the courts may hold them responsible for additional repairs.

This leaves the aftermarket. More problems there. One, the truck is just too new. Most are still covered by warranty. Two the cooling system functions well enough for most operations. While there is some unhappiness, there won't be a lot of demand for better.

That pretty much leaves those who are dissatisfied, with the task of finding solutions. Preferable ones that are easy to implement. Ones that have no down sides that can't be lived with.

I added stronger struts to my cargo hatch. For me, having to modify the hatch by moving the upper attachments was easy. I found the added effort to close the lid was acceptable also. A better solution would have been to find a way to the reduce the stickyness of the weatherstrips.

Anyway back on topic.

I'm wondering why the cooling system engineers troubled themselves to create a two speed fan system in the first place.

 

[JimGnitecki]

beer100: I can thiunk of at least 2 good reasons for a 2-speed fan:

1. Use less power until more power is actually needed

2. Fans, at least effective ones, are noisy, so a lower speed is nice for the times when it is sufficient

Jim G

 

[Scheide]

Beer100: Well worded, sometimes we have to do "what we have to do"! I disliked the lower rear fender shake, so I devised a strut to beef it up. Works fine now. I also dislike the front lower grill shake and cheap feeling and someday I will install the reinforcing which I have read about on this site. My fan seems to operate as designed, but it sure gets hot under that hood. On a recent trip in idle shut down traffic, I turned on the recirculate switch to get fan running, this seems to help. So maybe we can put our heads together at Homecoming and trade stories. See ya, Scheide.

 

[Yaller Dog]

what is the third wire for?

Okay Jim G., I've taken the lead on this research. Our SSRs come with an OEM 14" electric puller cooling fan with curved bladed. Straight blades move more air, but are not as quiet. Curved blades to not move as much air, but are more quiet. The difference between the two seems pretty minimal. If you want to keep the OEM size of a 14" cooling fan and keep the curved blades, to keep in quiet, but you want to increase air flow and cooling capability, then I think I have found the best fan (see link below). http://www.zirgo.com/search.lasso?search=cooling+fan

The ZF14S - 14" 2670 CFM ZIRGO HIGH PERFORMANCE RADIATOR COOLING FAN
MSRP: $169.95 YOUR PRICE: $139.95 appears to be the winner. At a CFM of 2670, it blows away (excuse the pun) the Spal fans, which are advertized as being used in NASCAR cars.

The aftermarket fans will fit without a problem using the universal mounting brackets. However, here is where I need an answer from a GM service tech or an electrician. There are only 2 wires on the aftermarket cooling fans - positive and ground. However, on the OEM cooling fan, there is a 3 wire harness. The 3 wires go all the way from the relay to the fan plug and then to the fan motor. I would assume that 2 out of the 3 wires is also positive and ground - but which 2? What wire is what? Also, what is the third wire for? Can you make a 2 wire aftermarket cooling fan work by somehow addapting it the the 3 wire plug that goes to the relay?

I would assume that all GM cars have this 3 wire cooling fan. So, who is buying these high performance 2 wire cooling fans? There has to be a way to make it work. :confused

I'm going way back for this one, so far in fact that I haven't much confidence in this answer, but maybe someone can pick up on this and help out. In power wiring, a 2-speed motor achieves its faster speed by exciting more of the "field" electromagnets that are idle at the lower speed. The third wire usually is the "hot" lead to carry current to those idle units. What this means is that one "hot" wire and the ground are "on" all the time, while the third wire is cycled "on" and "off" as the higher rpm is needed. If a motor has only 2 leads you can bet it is a single speed motor. If it has 3 leads it is USUALLY a 2-speed motor. However, sometimes a third lead is used in a single speed motor to "excite" a starter coil that gives the motor more torque momentarily, to aid it in starting under load. Identifying which lead is the "third lead" is usually up to the literature furnished by the manufacturer of the motor, because it is up to him what color he wants to use. Sorry for the rambling, just trying to help.
:confused

 

[houtex]

Wait at minute, TIME OUT! We are driving SSR purchased from GM which includes a warrenty which is 36 and 36. Each and all of us have either experienced a hot condition or feel our vehicles are running too hot. This web site is loaded with questions and answers and JimG and others have put a lot of work and investigation into the subject. Evidently Chev. is not reading this site or is not concerned. Now, you are suggesting that we just chuck our OEM fan, invest whatever and move on. I feel GM and Chev. has a responsibility in this matter. How about Chev. replacing the fans with a stronger air flow type which would also reduce the excessive under hood heat. Your thoughts!

As I've mentioned on here before on other "fan" threads, - mine was running hot and finally pegged when I was in traffic waiting on a train. Took it in and they replaced the fan - whatever they did - mine has not run over 210 since and that includes summer in Houston where 98 isn't uncommon and the low at night is in the 80's..

So there must be some way to fix the OEM arrangemen.

 

[BlastfromPast]

I'm going way back for this one, so far in fact that I haven't much confidence in this answer, but maybe someone can pick up on this and help out. In power wiring, a 2-speed motor achieves its faster speed by exciting more of the "field" electromagnets that are idle at the lower speed. The third wire usually is the "hot" lead to carry current to those idle units. What this means is that one "hot" wire and the ground are "on" all the time, while the third wire is cycled "on" and "off" as the higher rpm is needed. If a motor has only 2 leads you can bet it is a single speed motor. If it has 3 leads it is USUALLY a 2-speed motor. However, sometimes a third lead is used in a single speed motor to "excite" a starter coil that gives the motor more torque momentarily, to aid it in starting under load. Identifying which lead is the "third lead" is usually up to the literature furnished by the manufacturer of the motor, because it is up to him what color he wants to use. Sorry for the rambling, just trying to help.
:confused

Automotive motors are DC (direct current) and speed (or power) is infinately varible by increasing / decreasing amperage. Only 2 wires needed (12V and ground) for any speed or power level up to the maximum design limits of the motor. That being said, I don't know what the third fan wire is all about on the SSR - it may be feedback info for the PCM - just speculating on that.

Blast

 

[JimGnitecki]

houtex: Could you possibly go back to your dealership and ask the mechanic exactly what he DID do?

Note also that ever since my fan was replaced recently under warranty (about 1200 miles ago), the temperature has not ever gone above 210. Most of time, it runs at about 190 to 200 (estimating based on guage markings), but when caught in stop & go, it does hit and stay at 210.

Theory: The fan can actually keep the engine at 210 or below (but NOT the air intake temperature NOR the MAS!) when working properly. However, it has an almost 100% "on" time, so eveentually fails. The high speed cpability of the fan fails first. The low speed capability is insufficient to keep the engine below 210, so we get the overheating situations reported. If the vehicle is being operated in lower ambient temperatures, the loss of the high speed is not noted until the LOW speed also fails! Then, the engine overheats if it stays below about 40 mph for a even very short time.

Plausible?

IF true, we don't NECESSARILY (maybe) need a higher CFM just to control the engine temperature - just more RELIABILITY (i.e. a fan rated for 100% duty cycle.) However, we STILL overheat the MAS, distorting its output, and we still draw in very hot air into the engine intake, reducing power output.

Jim G

 

[woohoo]

Dumb question??

Is there another way to cool the engine besides a fan? ( simple words, please, Jim )

 

[woohoo]

More on above question

We discussed on another thread some ideas ie spoilers, louvered hoods etc. Is it going to be necessary to change the fan or can cooler temps. be achieved by using other methods??

 

[mr.merlin]

simple solution. buy a predator programmer and change the temperature settings and put in a 160 thermostat. won't go over 210 and will stay around 190 most of the time even with a supercharger.