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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well I've had mine in two times for rear end noise and no progress so far. They have had the rear end apart twice and they say everything is within tolerance. It sounds like a classic ring gear pinion whine, it starts at about 48 mph and is the loudest at about 55mph and dissappears at about 60mph. The latest B.S. I got was it's not that bad, it probably won't hurt anything and some rear end howl is normal. Nice try ! ! ! ! !
So if anybody has any ideas please let me know so that I can pass it along to my dealer as it doesn't sound like the district service rep. has much to offer.
 

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Being a Mechanic for most of my life, I can say that the whine you describe is usually seen with 4.11 or higher numerical gear sets. I have heard some pretty loud sets and some sort of quiet sets. Check with the local high performance shops and it might be a real good excuse to change gears for say a set of 4.11 or 4.56, hell the dealer might do the install for you. Some times the cut on the gears are the issue, but usually the sets that GM uses are cut to be quiet. Try contacting Randy's Ring and Pinion, he is a wealth of information on setting up a set of gears.
 
G

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A competent gear guy could run a pattern on the gear set and see how they are facing - if they are only meshing on an inner or outer section for example. Good luck finding one at a dealer.

I replaced my ring and pinion with a 4.56 set, and they were initially whiny, and I was gonna have the gear guy do this, but it's to the point now where I don't need it anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I really don't have a problem with the stock gear ratio, what I want to do is simply get rid of the noise. Hopefully somebody out there has been through this and can save me some time dealing with this.

THANKS AGAIN :thumbs
 

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I doubt the dealer has the know-how to do a gear set correctly. I would take it to a good performance drivetrain shop. Word of advice, you get what you pay for when buying gears. Some manufacturer sell quiet sets. Go with a name brand quality set.

If you like the stock gearing then have the dealer order a set of gears and make sure they explain how they are going to set them up. Ask if you can watch them do it. They will use a paint on the gears, then rotate the set and check for the print in the paint. There is all kinds of information about it on the net. The print in the paint will tell you how the gears are meshing.
 

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Installation Instructions


1. Remove the old gear set and thoroughly clean both the ring gear carrier and rear end housing with solvent. After cleaning, air dry all parts.

2. Always verify that you have the correct gear ratio that you have purchased. This can be checked by dividing ring gear tooth count by the pinion tooth count. e.g. (Ring gear tooth count 35 T, pinion gear Tooth count 10 T, 35 divided by 10 = 3.50:1.

3. Many differential cases have many thousands of miles of service. Check all threads in the case for ware. It may be necessary to chase the treads to clean and align threads.

4. Check side bearing adjusters as they are often warped and out of shape making ring and pinion settings difficult. Replace as necessary.

5. Check ring gear back face for flatness. Generally after heat treating there may be a degree of taper. This may be rectified by lapping gear on sand paper on a glass flat plate. This will give you more even and uniform pattern when setting up you new gear set.

6. Careful attention should be give to blueprinting your rear end. Accurate clearancing will lead to a longer life for your unit.

7. All new parts should be thoroughly cleaned before assembly and checked for damage.

8. Examine the ring gear mounting surface for nicks or burrs which might prevent a flush mounting of the newly installed ring gear. Ring/Pinion tooth depth variations can result from a ring gear that is "cocked" on its mounting surface. If a ring gear spacer is to be used, also check it for surface imperfections. Nicks or burrs can be removed by using block-backed grit paper ora small file. Following material removal rewash in solvent and air dry. Mounting ring gear. Loctite ring gear bolts and torque to factory specifications.

9. All Motive Gear and Motive Gear Performance ring gear and pinions have been "Lapped" in sets and should never be mixed with another ring gear or pinion. Check to see serial numbers are the same on the ring gear and pinion.

10. Each motive gear and Motive Gear Performance ring gear and pinion is prerun and marked on the pinion face with its proper depth setting called the "Checking Distance". This dimension is from the face of the pinion to the axle center-line. A setting tool must be used to measure the checking distance. Pinion depth is adjustable by adding or subtracting shim thickness. Stay +/-.002 of the pinion dimension, (see Figure 'A' and 'B').

11. Once pinion depth is achieved using a new crush collar or preload shim pack set pinion bearing preload to 15 inch-pounds rotating torque with used bearings, and 25 inch pounds with new bearings. Once preload is set install the seal and loctite pinion nut.

12. Once the pinion gear is installed, position ring gear and carrier into housing to check backlash. Motive Gear and Motive Gear Performance ring gear and pinions are developed to be run at .008" to .012" back-lash for street gear sets.


13. Adjustments for backlash is done by spanner rings in the housing or shim packs behind the carrier bearing cups (GM) or cones (Dana). Always be sure carrier bearings are preloaded. The carrier should not fall out of the housing, but should have to be "tapped" in during final installation. Replace bearing caps and torque to factory specifications.

14. You are now ready to verify the tooth contact pattern. A gear marking compound should be used. Paint gear teeth with compound in several spots and rotate ring gear several revolutions. A tooth contact pattern will appear and should be similar to the pattern shown in illustration 'C'. If the pattern is not in the approximate position shown, reset pinion depth and backlash to correct pattern. Pinion shims usually must be moved in .003 of an inch increments to notice a pattern change. If a pattern is heavy toe subtract shims, (see Figure 'D') If a pattern is heavy heel add shims, (see Figure 'E').

NOTE: Reverse the procedure for 8" and 9" Ford

15. Fill the case with required amount of GL6 Torco 85W-140W with additive gear lube, and maintain the proper level at all times. Proper maintenance is a must to protect your safety and the working life of you gear set.

Torque Specifications

Ring Gear Bolts


Installation Instructions Instructciónes Para Cunstruiando Diferenciales y Corona Piñón


1. Remove the old gear set and thoroughly clean both the ring gear carrier and rear end housing with solvent. After cleaning, air dry all parts.

2. Always verify that you have the correct gear ratio that you have purchased. This can be checked by dividing ring gear tooth count by the pinion tooth count. e.g. (Ring gear tooth count 35 T, pinion gear Tooth count 10 T, 35 divided by 10 = 3.50:1.

3. Many differential cases have many thousands of miles of service. Check all threads in the case for ware. It may be necessary to chase the treads to clean and align threads.

4. Check side bearing adjusters as they are often warped and out of shape making ring and pinion settings difficult. Replace as necessary.

5. Check ring gear back face for flatness. Generally after heat treating there may be a degree of taper. This may be rectified by lapping gear on sand paper on a glass flat plate. This will give you more even and uniform pattern when setting up you new gear set.

6. Careful attention should be give to blueprinting your rear end. Accurate clearancing will lead to a longer life for your unit.

7. All new parts should be thoroughly cleaned before assembly and checked for damage.

8. Examine the ring gear mounting surface for nicks or burrs which might prevent a flush mounting of the newly installed ring gear. Ring/Pinion tooth depth variations can result from a ring gear that is "cocked" on its mounting surface. If a ring gear spacer is to be used, also check it for surface imperfections. Nicks or burrs can be removed by using block-backed grit paper ora small file. Following material removal rewash in solvent and air dry. Mounting ring gear. Loctite ring gear bolts and torque to factory specifications.

9. All Motive Gear and Motive Gear Performance ring gear and pinions have been "Lapped" in sets and should never be mixed with another ring gear or pinion. Check to see serial numbers are the same on the ring gear and pinion.

10. Each motive gear and Motive Gear Performance ring gear and pinion is prerun and marked on the pinion face with its proper depth setting called the "Checking Distance". This dimension is from the face of the pinion to the axle center-line. A setting tool must be used to measure the checking distance. Pinion depth is adjustable by adding or subtracting shim thickness. Stay +/-.002 of the pinion dimension, (see Figure 'A' and 'B').

11. Once pinion depth is achieved using a new crush collar or preload shim pack set pinion bearing preload to 15 inch-pounds rotating torque with used bearings, and 25 inch pounds with new bearings. Once preload is set install the seal and loctite pinion nut.

12. Once the pinion gear is installed, position ring gear and carrier into housing to check backlash. Motive Gear and Motive Gear Performance ring gear and pinions are developed to be run at .008" to .012" back-lash for street gear sets.


13. Adjustments for backlash is done by spanner rings in the housing or shim packs behind the carrier bearing cups (GM) or cones (Dana). Always be sure carrier bearings are preloaded. The carrier should not fall out of the housing, but should have to be "tapped" in during final installation. Replace bearing caps and torque to factory specifications.

14. You are now ready to verify the tooth contact pattern. A gear marking compound should be used. Paint gear teeth with compound in several spots and rotate ring gear several revolutions. A tooth contact pattern will appear and should be similar to the pattern shown in illustration 'C'. If the pattern is not in the approximate position shown, reset pinion depth and backlash to correct pattern. Pinion shims usually must be moved in .003 of an inch increments to notice a pattern change. If a pattern is heavy toe subtract shims, (see Figure 'D') If a pattern is heavy heel add shims, (see Figure 'E').

NOTE: Reverse the procedure for 8" and 9" Ford

15. Fill the case with required amount of GL6 Torco 85W-140W with additive gear lube, and maintain the proper level at all times. Proper maintenance is a must to protect your safety and the working life of you gear set.

Torque Specifications

Ring Gear Bolts



Here is the site, it has pictures of the proper patterns.

http://www.drivetrain.com/ringpinioninstal.html
 

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Bill Scott: Usually the factory 3.73 gears are quiet. In fact, this is really the first case I have heard of where the noise is noticeable and objectionable.

Tell your dealer that you have compared the noise level to other stock SSRs and yours IS not normal. Tell him you want a new set installed under warranty.

I would urge you though to consider asking them to put in a 4.11 (GM does not provide anything higher than 4.11. The 4.11 is specified for certain trailer towing applications on pickups). You will find the vehicle much more satisfying, and I'm NOT talking baout dragracing. I mean it will feel much more nimble and less labored.

They shouldn't care that they put in a 4.11 versus a 3.73. The cost is I'm sure the same to GM.

Your 04 can be EASILY reprogrammed so that the speedometer and shift points are correct for the new gearing, by changing just ONE field in the PCM. The GM technician can use the GM Tech II to do this.

Jim G
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If I drop down to 4:11 from 3:73 will it drop the mileage at all and what will I see as far as an increase in engine rps at a given speed. I have had experience in the past with other vehicles where lower gears actually booster the mileage and really made a big difference in driveabality ! ! ! ! :thumbs
 

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Bill Scott:

The change from 3.73 to 4.11 is only a10% increase in ratio. The change that I, and now many others also, have made to 4.56, is a 22% increase - over twice as large a change as going to 4.11.

If you do a seacrhh on "fuel mileage" or "4.56" you will find that I did very meticulous fuel milage experiments both before and after my actual changeover. The change from 3.73 to 4.11 only dropped my fuel mileage at a steady 60 mph by 7.4%. Subsequent dyno tuning by Reese Cox at MTI Racing restored most or all of that.

As for rpm, you will see 10% more rpm at each speed in top gear.

That means:

60 mph:
stock rpm = 1800
4.11 rpm = 1980
4.56 rpm = 2200

80 mph:
stock rpm = 2400
4.11 rpm = 2640
4.56 rpm = 2900

Before I went to 4.56, I evaluated 4.11 and other gear ratios. The benefits of the 4.11 were just over half the benefits of the 4.56 in terms of accleration statistics.

It is also easy and wise to change the maximum rpm in each gear (i.e. the shift point at wide open throttle) from the stock 5600 to at least 5900 (up to 6000 or 6100 is conservatively safe with the stock 5.3 liter engine). The purpose of this is to overcome the "gap" on the 1st to 2nd shift with the stock INTERNAL automatic transmission ratios. I will cover the reasons for, and numerical impacts of, this change in shift point in detail in my subscription book "The SSR Experience". In the meantime, take my word that this is a good thing to do. This is easy to do with either the GM Tech II or with an aftermarket microtuner.

Jim G
 

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Bill,
I had the same noise at the same speeds as you. They put the
second design propshaft with the damper and it took the noise
away.
It surprised me because I thought it was the ring and pinion.
The propshaft they are using now is the third design. The
p/n is 15247556.
Bud

.
 

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Bud: Let me make sure I understood you correctly:

The 3rd replacement driveshaft solved the noise problem for you?

I HAVE that 3rd driveshaft, and still have noise, but I also have the 4.56 gearing, so it could be the gearing or the prop shaft.

Jim G
 

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I also had the gear whine at 45/50 then again at 65/70. Dealer changed the drive shaft with the new style one - this took care of the 45/50 noise but did nothing for the 65/70 noise.
 

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Wow! Talk about correlation!!

Your noise started at 45 to 50 mph with the 3.73 axle ratio. Mine starts at around 37 mph, which "coincidentally" is EXACTLY 3.73/4.56 x 45 mph!

Jim G
 

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My steel drive shaft eliminated the tink and the gear howl, what a difference the missing gear noise was the bonus. Quality Chevy Escondido Ca. District rep ok's this repair, Oceanside drive shaft builds it. This dealer has replaced 3 with steel. Quiet as a mouse and tinkless.
Ted :ssr
 

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drive shaft

Jim,
I am still on the 2nd design drive shaft. The gear whine is still gone but
I am getting the tink or clunk. There is only about 1000 miles on this drive
shaft and it is getting worse each time I drive it.
I switched to a service department at another dealership. They ordered the
3rd design drive shaft yesterday.

Bud
 

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drive shaft

Ted,
Did they include the damper on your steel drive shaft?? I feel the
damper is a mask for another problem. I wonder if the heavier steel
drive shaft could overcome these problems without the damper.
Bud
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
BUD
I called my dealer today with the drive shaft info. and part #, the district service rep is coming tomorrow so this should be interesting. Hopefully they will have some ideas ! ! ! ! ! OR try the drive shaft.

THANKS
BILL :thumbs
 

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Steel drive shaft is old school just straight tube with two U-joints, no dampers. Keep it simple, did have it custom painted redline red, kinda liked the pretty aluminium one, the paint helped with the seperation anxiety. :ssr
Ted :seeya
 
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