RUSSR04 re: 4:56 Gears
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John317: The unavailability of either microtuners or tuning software to change the gear ratio field within the computer is a big problem for 05 SSR owners.
Even if you can find a GM technician with the GM-rovided Tech II tuner, that unit apaprently ( we have ben told) not allow entry of a 4.56 value into the gear ratio field because Chevrolet itself does not povide any ratio higher than 4.11 for use in their vehicles.
I think at least one other SSR owner with an 05 has done the gear ratio change, and had trouble finding a way to change the software to match, but eventially did. Hopefully he will see this thread and provide some feedback.
Jim G
Even if you can find a GM technician with the GM-rovided Tech II tuner, that unit apaprently ( we have ben told) not allow entry of a 4.56 value into the gear ratio field because Chevrolet itself does not povide any ratio higher than 4.11 for use in their vehicles.
I think at least one other SSR owner with an 05 has done the gear ratio change, and had trouble finding a way to change the software to match, but eventially did. Hopefully he will see this thread and provide some feedback.
Jim G
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4,101 Posts
Your 94 Z28 weighs about 1500 lb less than the SSR!!
Yes, waiting for arrival of aftermarket microtuners is the easiest. Some people are not the waiting kind though . . .
Jim G
Yes, waiting for arrival of aftermarket microtuners is the easiest. Some people are not the waiting kind though . . .
Jim G
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1,783 Posts
Patience??
"As was his language, so was his life". Seneca
Normally I'm not that patient, but I like things done right and if 4:56 gears are the best setup for the 05 6spd I'll wait. That way when I finally get it done it will seem like having a new truck again.JimGnitecki said:
"As was his language, so was his life". Seneca
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904 Posts
Or should I just wait for someone to come out with the microtuner. I love this truck, but it's lethargy is driving me nuts. My 94 Z28 seems so much quicker even though it is only 275hp.
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What- I have a 04 and last week I took it back to the drag strip, It was a cool night and boy it ran good, I ran in street tire class, Most were running BF Goodrich drag radials, I was on the stock tires and yes it would smoke them as much as I wanted and sometimes more than I wanted, I ran on a 13.70 dail in and all night it ran right in there, The worst it ran was a 13.74 89 mph on the breaks and the best was 13.69 104 mph. When the night was over the big yellow SSR was the finalist in street tire class, The guy reaaly woke it up working on the computer
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What- I have a 04 and last week I took it back to the drag strip, It was a cool night and boy it ran good, I ran in street tire class, Most were running BF Goodrich drag radials, I was on the stock tires and yes it would smoke them as much as I wanted and sometimes more than I wanted, I ran on a 13.70 dail in and all night it ran right in there, The worst it ran was a 13.74 89 mph on the breaks and the best was 13.69 104 mph. When the night was over the big yellow SSR was the finalist in street tire class, The guy reaaly woke it up working on the computer
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4,101 Posts
Double-L: ????
You don't knock over 2 seconds off the quarter mile time by just altering the computer programming. That takes PHYSICAL changes too!
What did you do to your SSR in total?
NOS? Blower?
Jim G
You don't knock over 2 seconds off the quarter mile time by just altering the computer programming. That takes PHYSICAL changes too!
What did you do to your SSR in total?
NOS? Blower?
Jim G
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904 Posts
Hey Jim how you doing, Well most the things I think you know but here it is from start to well up to now, Magna super charger power coated silver, Computer tune with the ........ that came with the charger, FlowerMaster 50, Just one, Boy would a set of duals open the door, Went to the strip to test it and it ran 14.10, Not bad would run with most anything on the street but funny thing is I was running with the 12 sec. car through 1/8, The guy that set the charger run it a couple of times and said man off the line and through the 1/8 it is something but then it dies out. He sent me to John the one I told you retired from GM working with computers from the chip days to the ones we have now, He put his lap top on it and took the power manament off and set the shift point to 6,000 and did some other fine tunning, Told me to put a 160 degree in it and lowered the fan to come on at 181% and I took it back and it was a cool day and that is when it ran 13.60's, Everyone on the lane that seen the 13.70 dial in thought I was running NOS, I said I wasn't but one guy said he could hear it, They said a 5.000lb truck with a stock super charged 327 won't run 13.69 @ 104, Thing is I am getting 11 to 12 pounds of boost before it comes to the 5 pounds that it is set at, John said it is back pressure, He said I have to get the exhaust moving up front and a set of less wide tires on the front and then let him retune and he said he wouldn't even guess at the et the thing would do then, Humm NOS a 11 sec SSR,
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4,101 Posts
I like your way of thinking, Double-L! 
Careful with the torque management. That tranny can't take much, and the spikes during a shift are incredible with the torque management COMPLETELY disabled.
Jim G
Careful with the torque management. That tranny can't take much, and the spikes during a shift are incredible with the torque management COMPLETELY disabled.
Jim G
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904 Posts
Know what you mean but one thing that helps, The transnission that is not the ET, I get a lot of tire spin off the line and when it shifts to 2nd. so I have talked to someone that said they can take care of the tranny up to 750 HP and with a smaller with higher rpm t/c the et should drop as a bonus, Really I should get in the real low 12's and stay around 19 to 20 MPG and be able to drive the truck everydaywithout NOS, Who knows what it would do with the NOS cause super chargers love NOS, Take care
G
Guest
·Hi Jim, Does MTI have a tuner yet???
Jim, I'm still waiting to hear from Paul. I've sent him 2 emails since I talked to him on the phone. Do they have the ability to change the gears to 4:56 and retune the ECM for a 6 speed 05??I'm still hanging in there! I hear the Predator will not be available to this fall, have you heard any different? Thanks, Fred the fryguy :confused :confused :thumbs :flag
Jim, I'm still waiting to hear from Paul. I've sent him 2 emails since I talked to him on the phone. Do they have the ability to change the gears to 4:56 and retune the ECM for a 6 speed 05??I'm still hanging in there! I hear the Predator will not be available to this fall, have you heard any different? Thanks, Fred the fryguy :confused :confused
:thumbs :flag JimGnitecki said:
G
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·Where do you run?
Double-L,
Where do you run? I'd like to come watch you sometime. I am a gearhead but missed all the practical classes. What I know I've picked up here and there on the way.
Vaquero
Double-L,
Where do you run? I'd like to come watch you sometime. I am a gearhead but missed all the practical classes. What I know I've picked up here and there on the way.
Vaquero
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4,101 Posts
Russ04: For a completely stock SSR, 5900 rpm or so is best for shifting.
For modified ones (exhaust & headers), 6000 or 6100.
FredFryGuy: MTI does not have 05 SSR tuning software available to them yet. Hopefully, it will be coming soon. Someone posted here on the forum the other day that they have been told by an afyermarket vendor that it will be available within a month, as I recall.
Reese is running short-handed as two of his popel are taking vacation one right after the other.
Paul, Reese's part-time partner, is normally very detailed oriented. He is very distracted right now, as he has been diagnosed to have a very serious medical problem that will require intensive treatment asap. I have come to know Paul as a very good friend, and am pretty upset about it myself.
Jim G
For modified ones (exhaust & headers), 6000 or 6100.
FredFryGuy: MTI does not have 05 SSR tuning software available to them yet. Hopefully, it will be coming soon. Someone posted here on the forum the other day that they have been told by an afyermarket vendor that it will be available within a month, as I recall.
Reese is running short-handed as two of his popel are taking vacation one right after the other.
Paul, Reese's part-time partner, is normally very detailed oriented. He is very distracted right now, as he has been diagnosed to have a very serious medical problem that will require intensive treatment asap. I have come to know Paul as a very good friend, and am pretty upset about it myself.
Jim G
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4,101 Posts
Russr04: I am personally not comfortable with the 160 degree thermostat, but know that many others on this board ARE.
My concerns center around:
- Emissions issues
- Possible adverse impacts on other subsystems, as the PCM regulates many activitieis behind the scenes based upon reported engine coolant temperature. It is entirely possible that I would be more comfortable with this mod if I had a complete listing of potentially affected other subsystems, but I do not at this time.
The emissions thing is potentially a killer in any jurisdiction where emissions are tested. Some have said that if you don't have an engine light on the dash, you are ok, but I am not sure of that.
I personally think there are better ways of addressing the thermodynamics on the SSR, and hope to have some experimental results not too far in the future.
Jim G
My concerns center around:
- Emissions issues
- Possible adverse impacts on other subsystems, as the PCM regulates many activitieis behind the scenes based upon reported engine coolant temperature. It is entirely possible that I would be more comfortable with this mod if I had a complete listing of potentially affected other subsystems, but I do not at this time.
The emissions thing is potentially a killer in any jurisdiction where emissions are tested. Some have said that if you don't have an engine light on the dash, you are ok, but I am not sure of that.
I personally think there are better ways of addressing the thermodynamics on the SSR, and hope to have some experimental results not too far in the future.
Jim G
Much ado about thermostats
Jim and all, I'm not a thermal engineer, but I think many are attributing too much credit to the lower temperature thermostats to lowering the running temperature of our "Rods". Just humor me for a minute or two here... I'm not sure just what the percent of total coolent resides in the radiator and hoses versus what is actually in the channels that run through the engine block to cool it, but my guess is that it is at least 60% of the coolent is outside the engine block and associated hoses that are closest to the heat source, the combustion chambers, heads, etc. Anyway, no matter what temperature rated thermostat you have, they are all closed until the heat generated by the internal combustion, friction etc, heat the coolent that resides in the engine block etc to let's say 180 degrees, and assuming that you have a 180 degree thermostat, shortly after the coolent temperature gets to 180 degrees, the thermal reactant metal opens the thermostat and allows the water to flow freely throughout the cooling system, radiator, block, hoses, heater, etc. Now, when the hot coolent that just opened the thermostat mixes with the much cooler liquid in the radiator etc, the thermostat probably will close somewhat and restricts water flow... it can't help it.. but over time, the full amount of coolent is heated to at least 180 degrees... it may take a little longer for this to happen than if you had a 160 degree thermostat, but let's just say for arguement sake that once all the coolent is heated to at least 180 degrees, the thermostat is now wide open and the coolent continues to increase in heat as it is circulated through the engine block and heads. Since there is no variation of the temperature of the combustion and friction, the coolent will eventually reach a consistent higher temperature to dissipate the heat from the block and heads. The thermostat now has no effect on coolent temperature what so ever... now the radiator must do it's job of dissipating the heat through it's cooling coils, and we all know that when the beast is idling, not moving, and the fan is not moving any air through the coils to dissipate the heat, the coolent will continue to heat up and eventually, will overheat the engine and all. For cars with a manual fan that is belt driven, we also know that so long as the engine is running, air is being forced through the radiator coils at some rate, and this is what dissipates the heat from the coolent and keeps it from overheating. In our beast this is accomplished by a rather complex monitoring system that takes temperature input from sensors and then determines how fast the fan must run to compensate for the lack of air moving through the radiator coils to sufficiently cool the coolent and that also takes into consideration the speed of the beast, whether additional cooling is needed because the AC is running, and of course also how fast the engine is running as the higher speeds with more frequent combustion explosions will create more heat that needs to be dissipated, but also causes greater natural air flow through the radiator coils. So now, the total cooling system with PCM monitoring and commanding the fan to work faster or slower is all calculated so that the engine coolent remains at an acceptable temperature... and that seems to be somewhere between 190 and 235 degrees. After all this, I don't see what the rating of the thermostat has to do with any of this except that the lower temp thermostats will start the full flow of coolent throughout the cooling system earlier, but after a relatively short time with the very high combustion temperatures and friction heating the block and heads, the coolent temperature soon will get to 190-235 degrees no matter what. It seems that the only thing that keeps the coolent temp around 190-210 degrees is the PCM commands to the fan, controling the speed of the fan, thus the amount of air passing through the radiator coils. Some of us have experienced the fact that driving greater than 40-45 mph forces enough air through the coils to keep the coolent within it's tolerable range. So bottom line, the thermostat has little to do with the running temperature of our beast... it is all dependent upon the fan to supplement the air flowing through the coils as obviously, there is too much free air flow restriction from the grill, the nice looking black honeycomb mesh, and all the other stuff that is blocking free air flow through the radiator to keep the coolent within range through the normal stop and go driving conditions we all experience when not on the open road. Once the coolent reaches this higher operating temperature, all the other complex combinations of sensors and PCM interaction should keep the beast running rather well. All we need is a fan that does not fail. And I would say that in most cases... the cooling system is working very well... for some reason, there are an overall statistically few number of cases where the fan fails and we have trouble. It would be interesting to know just what percentage of the total vehicles to date have had cooling fan defects. Based on this forum, I would guess that there are maybe 50-75 reports here (and I think that is greatly aggressive) out of about 22K vehicles... that is about .3% failure rate. Maybe that is why we have not seen any corrective or remedial action taken by GM. One thing it has done for sure, is it has created some great and lively exchanges and I've enjoyed all of them... Just my $.02 worth here. :cool
Jim and all, I'm not a thermal engineer, but I think many are attributing too much credit to the lower temperature thermostats to lowering the running temperature of our "Rods". Just humor me for a minute or two here... I'm not sure just what the percent of total coolent resides in the radiator and hoses versus what is actually in the channels that run through the engine block to cool it, but my guess is that it is at least 60% of the coolent is outside the engine block and associated hoses that are closest to the heat source, the combustion chambers, heads, etc. Anyway, no matter what temperature rated thermostat you have, they are all closed until the heat generated by the internal combustion, friction etc, heat the coolent that resides in the engine block etc to let's say 180 degrees, and assuming that you have a 180 degree thermostat, shortly after the coolent temperature gets to 180 degrees, the thermal reactant metal opens the thermostat and allows the water to flow freely throughout the cooling system, radiator, block, hoses, heater, etc. Now, when the hot coolent that just opened the thermostat mixes with the much cooler liquid in the radiator etc, the thermostat probably will close somewhat and restricts water flow... it can't help it.. but over time, the full amount of coolent is heated to at least 180 degrees... it may take a little longer for this to happen than if you had a 160 degree thermostat, but let's just say for arguement sake that once all the coolent is heated to at least 180 degrees, the thermostat is now wide open and the coolent continues to increase in heat as it is circulated through the engine block and heads. Since there is no variation of the temperature of the combustion and friction, the coolent will eventually reach a consistent higher temperature to dissipate the heat from the block and heads. The thermostat now has no effect on coolent temperature what so ever... now the radiator must do it's job of dissipating the heat through it's cooling coils, and we all know that when the beast is idling, not moving, and the fan is not moving any air through the coils to dissipate the heat, the coolent will continue to heat up and eventually, will overheat the engine and all. For cars with a manual fan that is belt driven, we also know that so long as the engine is running, air is being forced through the radiator coils at some rate, and this is what dissipates the heat from the coolent and keeps it from overheating. In our beast this is accomplished by a rather complex monitoring system that takes temperature input from sensors and then determines how fast the fan must run to compensate for the lack of air moving through the radiator coils to sufficiently cool the coolent and that also takes into consideration the speed of the beast, whether additional cooling is needed because the AC is running, and of course also how fast the engine is running as the higher speeds with more frequent combustion explosions will create more heat that needs to be dissipated, but also causes greater natural air flow through the radiator coils. So now, the total cooling system with PCM monitoring and commanding the fan to work faster or slower is all calculated so that the engine coolent remains at an acceptable temperature... and that seems to be somewhere between 190 and 235 degrees. After all this, I don't see what the rating of the thermostat has to do with any of this except that the lower temp thermostats will start the full flow of coolent throughout the cooling system earlier, but after a relatively short time with the very high combustion temperatures and friction heating the block and heads, the coolent temperature soon will get to 190-235 degrees no matter what. It seems that the only thing that keeps the coolent temp around 190-210 degrees is the PCM commands to the fan, controling the speed of the fan, thus the amount of air passing through the radiator coils. Some of us have experienced the fact that driving greater than 40-45 mph forces enough air through the coils to keep the coolent within it's tolerable range. So bottom line, the thermostat has little to do with the running temperature of our beast... it is all dependent upon the fan to supplement the air flowing through the coils as obviously, there is too much free air flow restriction from the grill, the nice looking black honeycomb mesh, and all the other stuff that is blocking free air flow through the radiator to keep the coolent within range through the normal stop and go driving conditions we all experience when not on the open road. Once the coolent reaches this higher operating temperature, all the other complex combinations of sensors and PCM interaction should keep the beast running rather well. All we need is a fan that does not fail. And I would say that in most cases... the cooling system is working very well... for some reason, there are an overall statistically few number of cases where the fan fails and we have trouble. It would be interesting to know just what percentage of the total vehicles to date have had cooling fan defects. Based on this forum, I would guess that there are maybe 50-75 reports here (and I think that is greatly aggressive) out of about 22K vehicles... that is about .3% failure rate. Maybe that is why we have not seen any corrective or remedial action taken by GM. One thing it has done for sure, is it has created some great and lively exchanges and I've enjoyed all of them... Just my $.02 worth here. :cool
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4,101 Posts
Yes! I agree that all the 160 degree thermostat does is DELAYS the reaching of too-high temperatures, but in some situations, that would be useful - IF the fan did not fail!
The total population of this website is more like 2000 to 2500 last time I checked the listing, so the failure rate is actually far higher than the 0.3% - more like 3% based on your guess.
But, this is also early in the vehicle's life, and also depends on how hot the ambient conditions happen to get. Lots of variables.
Jim G
The total population of this website is more like 2000 to 2500 last time I checked the listing, so the failure rate is actually far higher than the 0.3% - more like 3% based on your guess.
But, this is also early in the vehicle's life, and also depends on how hot the ambient conditions happen to get. Lots of variables.
Jim G
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11,999 Posts
Agree with the assessment above! I also have a failed fan which explains my temp rise climbing the grapevine. Confimed it today driving around town. Managed to stay under 260 and any short run at 40 or more in 5th gear would cool it down to normal again. GM dealer is getting a phone call in the AM to order a fan.
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