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Discussion Starter #1
My SSR (2003) has stalled at a red light today and refuses to start again :(

I did drive a few miles prior this event, the engine was warmed up.

When I put my foot on the break and in Park,
I can turn the key but the starter does nothing,
no sound at all and even no voltage drop at all on my volt meter
(that does normally shows drop in volage while starting)

I did notice that the indicator below the gear letters (P R N D 3 2 1) is gone,
which seems not normal at all to me,
however, with the stick in Park I can remove the key,
when I move the stick out of park I cannot get the key out.


Anyone ideas of what the problem could be?
 

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My first thought is the battery... second..is the ignition switch everything goes through it and it can fail easily if it's the first design...third is not in the correct shift position, grommet on the shift cable has failed from the transmission heat and won't allow correct position...my first thoughts... I'm sure smarter people than me will chime in soon
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm checking now to borrow a car and try to get it started with start cables,
but whould taht explain the missing shift indicator line on the dashboard?

I don't know if it's still the first ignition switch, but I assume it is.
The shifter cable is also the original one as far as I could see when I was below it a few weeks ago,
I was planning on ordering a new ignition switch and shifter cable from Simple Engineering,
it seems Murhpy found me first.

Already found these posts for the currect points to get it towed:
https://www.ssrfanatic.com/forum/f4/tow-hooks-180490/#post3095162
https://www.ssrfanatic.com/forum/f4/tow-hooks-180490/#post3095522
 

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BAD BOW TIE
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Battery is a good place to start. Especially if it is old and or you don't use a Battery Tender Plus when not driving it.
 

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I agree with others that battery and battery cable connections is best place to start -- also check the battery ground cable to the body (near the battery).

If voltage is low, the IPC module may not function properly.

If you have a voltmeter or a test light (voltmeter is preferred) it is fairly easy to test the ignition switch instead of just replacing it and crossing your fingers.

You can test the ignition switches' ability to allow current flow though it properly. With the black lead of your voltmeter connected to a good ground. Touch the red lead to the test point on the top of the fuses highlighted in the attached charts with the ignition key in the all of the positions also noted on the chart.

For example - Fuse #5 (crank fuse) you should read 12v on the fuse with the ignition key in the crank position.
1. You must confirm your battery has 12 volts to begin the procedure - you can do this by testing various fuses - If fuses show 12 volts or more continue testing, if they show 12 volts or less check your ground connection (black lead) and your battery and connections until you get 12 volts or more at a number of fuses (NOTE some will be 0 volts - this is normal) Once you have completed this step continue
2. If you read 0 volts or somewhere near 0- 10 volts - again be sure you have a good ground by testing s few other fuses - if all read the same voltage you do not have a good ground. If other fuses show 12 volts and you are sure you have a good connection to the test point on the fuse suspect a bad ignition switch, circuit D has a malfunction or possible wiring.
3. Repeat the procedure at the other fuses being sure to do at least one for each ignition circuit (last column on chart - circuits A,C,D,E,G) with the key turned to all positions listed on the chart (the 5th column). EXAMPLE - fuse #9 (IGN E fuse) should show 12 volts with the key in the run AND crank position. - this would check ignition switch circuit C or wiring from the switch.


I have discussed the idea of a TECH LESSON with @ssroe to be held during Maggie Valley 2019. I plan to present this method of testing the ignition switch along with other basic electrical testing techniques, tricks and even an overview of how multiplex communication circuits work. Hopefully we can successfully work it into the schedule and reserve the use of the conference center.

Best of luck - I hope this helps.
Be sure to let us know what you find out!
 

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I'm checking now to borrow a car and try to get it started with start cables,
but whould taht explain the missing shift indicator line on the dashboard?

I don't know if it's still the first ignition switch, but I assume it is.
The shifter cable is also the original one as far as I could see when I was below it a few weeks ago,
I was planning on ordering a new ignition switch and shifter cable from Simple Engineering,
it seems Murhpy found me first.

Already found these posts for the currect points to get it towed:
https://www.ssrfanatic.com/forum/f4/tow-hooks-180490/#post3095162
https://www.ssrfanatic.com/forum/f4/tow-hooks-180490/#post3095522
Using jumper cables or changing the ignition switch won't fix it. The key to the issue is the missing shift indicator. This means it is not in park at the netural safety switch. This could be because of the shift cable bushing failing or the switch it's self has failed. Slide under it and see if the cable is off of the shift lever on the trans. If it is move the lever all the way forward and see if it starts, which it should and the indicator should show it is in park now. If this is the problem, get Dicktators shift cable repair kit and it will replace the bushing with a solid bolt, instead of the nylon bushing.
 

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Using jumper cables or changing the ignition switch won't fix it. The key to the issue is the missing shift indicator. This means it is not in park at the netural safety switch. This could be because of the shift cable bushing failing or the switch it's self has failed. Slide under it and see if the cable is off of the shift lever on the trans. If it is move the lever all the way forward and see if it starts, which it should and the indicator should show it is in park now. If this is the problem, get Dicktators shift cable repair kit and it will replace the bushing with a solid bolt, instead of the nylon bushing.
OPPS I just reread the original post - I agree whole heartedly with you

That's what I get for reading too quickly - I thought the shift indicator DISPLAY was blank not just the "indicator" was missing! :banghead
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I will investigate further tomorrow,
thanks for al the advice already :)

I will have to try to find a way to get a look at the shift cable without jacking it up
(My jack doesn't fit under the SSR unfortunately)
as I can't drive it to a bridge to get under it.
 

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Daily Driver
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That's OK Dan, your post is good for the next person to use to check the switch if he/she doesn't have the missing indicator. :thumbs
 

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Just a thought if it is the shift cable it could also be the upper connection for the shift cable under the shifter plate cover, I had mine replaced right after Dictator had his break apart and when the tried popping the old one off it broke into 2 pieces.
 

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Check Battery voltage. If Battery is over 3 years old? Take to Auto parts store like Advanced to be evaluated. Replace battery? If voltage has dropped? The vehicle alarm theft system starts operating & nothing you can do to start it. Need to reset alarm after battery check. Use the door switch & key fob. Also while under rear of SSR. Check negative battery cable to frame is in good shape. No rust or dirt on battery & in battery box. Corrosion on bolt & lug need clean up. Ignition switch is possible. Check the Hand Brake switch. It can cause problems with lights, alarm, draw on battery. I eliminated my hand brake switch. Wrap in tape to prevent grounding. Just my experience with my 04 SSR. I also have the complete repair book. Helps with trouble shooting.
 

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Just a thought if it is the shift cable it could also be the upper connection for the shift cable under the shifter plate cover, I had mine replaced right after Dictator had his break apart and when the tried popping the old one off it broke into 2 pieces.
Purple Haze, yes the top bushing can go bad, but the one that normally goes first is the lower bushing. But still worth checking.
Check Battery voltage. If Battery is over 3 years old? Take to Auto parts store like Advanced to be evaluated. Replace battery? If voltage has dropped? The vehicle alarm theft system starts operating & nothing you can do to start it. Need to reset alarm after battery check. Use the door switch & key fob. Also while under rear of SSR. Check negative battery cable to frame is in good shape. No rust or dirt on battery & in battery box. Corrosion on bolt & lug need clean up. Ignition switch is possible. Check the Hand Brake switch. It can cause problems with lights, alarm, draw on battery. I eliminated my hand brake switch. Wrap in tape to prevent grounding. Just my experience with my 04 SSR. I also have the complete repair book. Helps with trouble shooting.
Lady in Red, the battery is not the issue with this R. Go back and reread his first post. The KEY TO THE PROBLEM IS THE MISSING SHIFT INDICATOR ON THE DASH The R thinks it is still in gear and not in park or netural.
 

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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
The KEY TO THE PROBLEM IS THE MISSING SHIFT INDICATOR ON THE DASH The R thinks it is still in gear and not in park or netural.
Update on the issue:

I just got pictures of the shift cable under the SSR and it seems fine,
I've attached a picture of the cable whith the stick in Park and another one with the stick in 1
so installing the Transmission Shifter Repair Kit won't solve the problem I have currently
(still planning on installing the kit before it would be a problem)

I've also added a picture of the shift indicator under 'P' before the issue,
and a picture how it's currently (missing, doesn't matter if the stick is in Park or all the way to the other side in 1)
 

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Damn I thought for sure 06 BLUE's idea was spot on.

Thank you for pictures, this confirms a lot.

If you move the shifter extremely slow, does the indicator ever come on?

Do the backup or reverse lights work in any position of the shifter?

Does the check engine light come on with key on?

Do any of the other warning lights come on with key on?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Next Update (did ckeck stuff Autoprof mentioned):

Before testing the fuses I got the battery recharged over night,
also tried to start the engine before checking the fuses,
but responds the same as yesterday.

The fuses all seem ok:
under hood:
5,6,9,13,14,16,19,25,26 all aboven 12v when in run position, 0 when acc/key out
rear fuse box:
31,33,39,47,50,51 at 11.95v with run position, the lights are on at this moment, switch in auto mode (and 0 with key out)
31,33,47,50: above 12v with acc position (yes also 12v for 31 with acc position)
also checked 46 and gave 12v with key out and acc (forgot to check in run)

I've tried to move the shifter as slow as possible, didn't get the shift indicator to come on.
I've checked the reverse lights in every shift position and they didn't came on.

When I put the key in run position some lights including the engine light come on, after a few seconds following lights remain:
brake light (If I release the parking brake it will go out, it comes back on if I apply the parking brake)
abs light (If I recall corectly it wasn't on yesterday)
tc light (If I recall corectly it wasn't on yesterday), it does go out at the same time of the engine light but then reappears afer a second or 2 while the engine light doesn't come on again
battery light, stays on, I assume this is normal since the engine is not running

when I try to start the engine, all lights (including the shift indicator screen and message screen, ...) except for the brake light,
when back in the run position the screens come back on and it seems like I just put the key in

The light with the car and the lock comes one after a while, while trying different shift positions, getting in and out of the car ...
if I get the key out and put it back in run position it doens't come on again,
but as before comes on again after a while

Also the check gauges light is on because of low fuel,
I already added approx. 1.32 gallons of gasoline after the engine stalled to be 200% sure there is still gasoline left
AND
it's running on LPG most of the time, as was the case when stalling at the red light (with the gauge of the LPG tank indicating about 4-5 gallons left).
It only runs on gasoline when:
- the engine is cold
- always for starting*
- the LPG tank is empty
- I ask it to run on gasoline (which I do sometimes)
*when the engine is hot, this can be overridden to start directly on LPG if theres an issue with the gasoline system (eg: defect fuel pump),
howerver yesterday, with engine hot, it didn't start on gasloine nor LPG and today the engine is cold so LPG is not an option
 

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Hi Wim,

Some of the symptoms you described caused me to do a little research in the Repair Manual. My first thoughts went to the Theft Deterrent system,but..... What really got my attention was the missing indicator of gear position. Here’s my thoughts on the transmission gear indicator.

The indicator gets its position indication from the “Transmission Range Switch” (also called the “Park/Neutral Switch”) on the left side of the transmission. This switch feeds a ground matrix of four signal wires to the Transmission Control Module (TCM) to indicate the exact position of the lever. Although I don’t have any hard data to prove the failure, I suspect that the missing indicator may be caused by a lack of position information from that switch. This could be as simple as a missing ground connection at G101. Missing that ground would put all four lines to a “HIGH” indication. There is no logic selection in the matrix that uses all four inputs in an ungrounded (HIGH) condition. With no recognitionnized data from the switch, the TCM will not allow you to start the engine and probably has no position display available. Using this scenario, there is also a possibility that you have had a TCM failure..... The gear position indication in the display is actually driven from the digital data bus from the TCM......

I would welcome Autoprof to weigh in on this before you start changing parts...... he has tremendous resources.

Regards,

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The indicator gets its position indication from the “Transmission Range Switch” (also called the “Park/Neutral Switch”) on the left side of the transmission. This switch feeds a ground matrix of four signal wires to the Transmission Control Module (TCM) to indicate the exact position of the lever. ... This could be as simple as a missing ground connection at G101. Missing that ground would put all four lines to a “HIGH” indication.
You do need to get under the SSR to access the ground connection and/or the transmission/park/neutral range switch?
or can I access it trought the shifter console in the cabin?
or another place to check the signal wires with a volt meter?
 

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MY05SSR
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I think Mike is on to something! Mine being a 6 speed don't help but my sisters 04 had problems similar and it was Neutral Switch
 
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