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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My '06 has a P0171 and P0174. Sooo I made this Smoke machine. Using about 3 psi, I hooked it up to the brake booster hose to see if smoke came out of the intake gaskets. I didn't see any but, how long does it take and would it take more pressure? I disconnected the pipe going into the purge valve on the intake, from the tank, hooked up to it, and saw smoke coming out of here, see last picture, I think the vapor canister vent valve? Should smoke come out of it with the key off? Also if it is bad, I'm thinking that would be a different code than what I have. Hopefully @Autoprof or somebody can correct me.

Nick
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Nick
 

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04 SSR
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@nj6969
Yes that's normal. With key off the canister vent valve (at fuel tank) is open and the purge valve (at engine) is closed.
The fuel tank is allowed to vent to atmosphere through the charcoal canister during most conditions. The vent valve is closed during purging and during some of the self test procedures. The purge valve is opened during these conditions.

Fail safe would be vented with no vacuum leak through purge valve.
 

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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Be cautious deleting codes IF you have Inspection due anytime soon. At 32,119 I installed new Purge valve. Old one didn't have/hold vacuum. 32,140, MIL, P0171 & P0174. 32,168 install new Canister vent vale just because it's old, cheap and easy. Drive on highway 11 miles MIL. 32,190 stop restart, NO MIL. 32191 stop, clear codes, P0442, P0171, P0174. At 32196 check PVC hose, and PB hose both hold at 15. 32,216 MIL, P0171 & P0174. 32,228 clean MAF, notice PB hose fitting not "snapped" into intake good, delete the codes. 32,254 scan, no codes stored or pending--Cat. Inc., Evap. Inc, 02s Inc. 32,289 no codes, Cat. Inc., Evap. Inc. Today, 32,572, 342 miles since codes cleared, 21 warm up, and still Cat. INC & Evap. INC. Used a screw driver handle on my ear to listen to injectors and they all sound ok. Kinda thinking 02B2S2, it holds pretty steady between 0.510 and 0.720, or maybe fuel pressure, pump. Scanner doesn't show fuel pressure and probably don't have time to rent on. So many other things going on, I may have to take it to the shop--Inspection expires end of this month. I know the pictures don't tell it all, but maybe a hint? Added--How long does it take to get IM ready? and DIC shows fuel econ. go from 16.7 MPG to 14.8 Mpg.@Autoprof
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04 SSR
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Fuel trim sensor 2 is not a value that is used for anything. Most enhanced scanners don't even display it.
See this.


I am sure your 04 will show similar values for short term fuel trim (bank 1 or 2) sensor 2 values.

The CAT inc. EVAP Inc. This means the self tests for these systems are incomplete. The car has not been driven so that the self tests have run.

Realize for EVAP to run, the fuel must be between approx 15%-85%. So it will not perform this test on a fuel tank close to full or empty.

Cat monitor self test requires certain driving conditions to report a run and pass. This is the hardest one to get to reset.

Some states do not require ALL self test monitors to have run in order to pass inspection. You might do some research on that for your state.

Too late for me to think clearly at this time. Could also be the beers i had working on latest modification after work and dinner or maybe the bourbon I had when celebrating one step closer to completion. Whatever, I am not quite sure from reading your post.
Appears only driven 21 miles since clearing. My thought would be: Drive more see if any codes (pending or current).

The loose vacuum hose at intake for PB not being tight, could have repaired your initial lean code issues.🤞
 

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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
@Autoprof, thanks for clearing up the 99.9%. I know it takes a while for the test monitors to set, but about half way into my LONG post, I say it's been 342 miles and 21 warm ups (not miles) since last cleared codes. I have kept the fuel between a little over 1/4 and 3/4 full since the last code clearing. I'm confused why the monitors are still INC. after that long. Is it possible some issues could prevent them from getting ready? Or will they ALWAYS get ready, eventually, and then throw a code if a problem exists? Oh, and IF the problem was the PB hose not tight and every thing was correct, shouldn't the "Avg Ecom MPG" on the DIC, be back to normal, 17.8, instead of 14.8, or will it not get normal UNTIL the monitors are ok? Thanks

Nick
 

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Premium Member 2004 Smokin' Asphalt
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@Autoprof, thanks for clearing up the 99.9%. I know it takes a while for the test monitors to set, but about half way into my LONG post, I say it's been 342 miles and 21 warm ups (not miles) since last cleared codes. I have kept the fuel between a little over 1/4 and 3/4 full since the last code clearing. I'm confused why the monitors are still INC. after that long. Is it possible some issues could prevent them from getting ready? Or will they ALWAYS get ready, eventually, and then throw a code if a problem exists? Oh, and IF the problem was the PB hose not tight and every thing was correct, shouldn't the "Avg Ecom MPG" on the DIC, be back to normal, 17.8, instead of 14.8, or will it not get normal UNTIL the monitors are ok? Thanks

Nick
I think you have to reset the Avg Ecom MPG. with the arrow on your steering wheel to start over. You will have to drive a few miles for it to start to average again.
 

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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think you have to reset the Avg Ecom MPG. with the arrow on your steering wheel to start over. You will have to drive a few miles for it to start to average again.
Did that every time I cleared the codes, and some in between. Thanks. Getting ready to put 25 or so more miles on it :rolleyes:

Nick
 

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04 SSR
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Some enhanced scan tools will provide an ability to perform an EVAP service bay test.

Some more information on EVAP monitor from service manual.

INSPECTION/MAINTENANCE (I/M) SYSTEM SET PROCEDURE

1. Ensure that the vehicle meets the conditions for a cold start listed above.
- If the evaporative emission (EVAP) I/M System Status indicator displays NO, perform the EVAP Service bay test if available. See: Computers and Control Systems > Monitors, Trips, Drive Cycles and Readiness Codes
- If the EVAP Service bay test is NOT available, it may take up to 6 drive cycles, with up to 17 hours between drive cycles, for the EVAP I/M System Status indicator to transition to YES.
- If the O2S Heater System Status indicator displays NO, ensure that the ignition has been turned OFF for at least 10 hours.
 

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04 SSR
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Also found that Texas will allow one monitor to be incomplete

Effective October 15, 2008:

For vehicles year model 2001 and newer, we allow one (1) non-continuous monitor to be Not Ready and still pass the test, but two (2) or more Not Ready's will cause the vehicle to fail.


I copied this from the following website - might be worth reading some of this for information on monitors


Regarding your MPG

Oh, and IF the problem was the PB hose not tight and every thing was correct, shouldn't the "Avg Ecom MPG" on the DIC, be back to normal, 17.8, instead of 14.8, or will it not get normal UNTIL the monitors are ok? Thanks

Really, normal is 17.8? I only get this if I have been driving a while on the freeway. My 04 normal after taking it out of storage is usually about 15. But honestly, I probably get a little heavy footed too often with mostly city driving and don't really look at my MPG too often either. Monitors will have nothing to do with the MPG calculations. The computer looks at fuel level sensor as the input for how much fuel is used vs the odometer. So the computer is trusting the fuel level sensor to provide accurate input as to the amount of fuel used. If I reset mine I find it is usually higher if I have more fuel in the tank. I believe this is also due to the accuracy of the fuel level calculations.

From service manual

AVERAGE FUEL ECONOMY
The Average Fuel Economy (AFE) value is calculated by the cluster based on Trip Distance and Trip Fuel Used.
 

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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Some enhanced scan tools will provide an ability to perform an EVAP service bay test.

Some more information on EVAP monitor from service manual.

INSPECTION/MAINTENANCE (I/M) SYSTEM SET PROCEDURE

1. Ensure that the vehicle meets the conditions for a cold start listed above.
- If the evaporative emission (EVAP) I/M System Status indicator displays NO, perform the EVAP Service bay test if available. See: Computers and Control Systems > Monitors, Trips, Drive Cycles and Readiness Codes
- If the EVAP Service bay test is NOT available, it may take up to 6 drive cycles, with up to 17 hours between drive cycles, for the EVAP I/M System Status indicator to transition to YES.
- If the O2S Heater System Status indicator displays NO, ensure that the ignition has been turned OFF for at least 10 hours.
I can't get into ALLDATA, just a sign in box not a create account box. I JUST did 11 miles stopped for about 30 minutes, another 6 miles, stopped for 20 minutes, 5 miles home still the same INC., and only 1 warm up. I'll drive move over the weekend and try to make longer stops so it can cool down more in between start ups. Like I said in post #3, I won't intentionally clear a code again. For MPG, Kathy's '04 is showing 17.9 right now and I'm sure my '06 did better than her's. The average MPG has definitely dropped the last couple of weeks from upper 15's to upper 14's. We do live out of city limits so most of the driving is on FM and highway.

Nick
 

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Fuel trim sensor 2 is not a value that is used for anything. Most enhanced scanners don't even display it.
See this.


I am sure your 04 will show similar values for short term fuel trim (bank 1 or 2) sensor 2 values.

The CAT inc. EVAP Inc. This means the self tests for these systems are incomplete. The car has not been driven so that the self tests have run.

Realize for EVAP to run, the fuel must be between approx 15%-85%. So it will not perform this test on a fuel tank close to full or empty.

Cat monitor self test requires certain driving conditions to report a run and pass. This is the hardest one to get to reset.

Some states do not require ALL self test monitors to have run in order to pass inspection. You might do some research on that for your state.

Too late for me to think clearly at this time. Could also be the beers i had working on latest modification after work and dinner or maybe the bourbon I had when celebrating one step closer to completion. Whatever, I am not quite sure from reading your post.
Appears only driven 21 miles since clearing. My thought would be: Drive more see if any codes (pending or current).

The loose vacuum hose at intake for PB not being tight, could have repaired your initial lean code issues.🤞
(y)
I understand completely, once the day gets into the late afternoon hours, it is for sure time to (wet ones whistle) often multiple times. This can and will...........maybe has..........caused some less than desirable posting answers.

Good that you recognized the situation. Sometimes, as I have discovered, waiting till next day allows for a more sanitized answer.;);)
 

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04 SSR
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(y)
I understand completely, once the day gets into the late afternoon hours, it is for sure time to (wet ones whistle) often multiple times. This can and will...........maybe has..........caused some less than desirable posting answers.

Good that you recognized the situation. Sometimes, as I have discovered, waiting till next day allows for a more sanitized answer.;);)
Exactly what are you suggesting?

I don't think there was anything unsanitary about my answer.

His post was long and I got lost because he said he cleared codes at 32,289 then checked again at 32,572. He then stated it was 342 miles since codes cleared and 21 warm up cycles.
I could tell the number wasn't quite right (283 miles to be exact). Although it was close to midnight my time, I determined I had two choices:

#1 Reply now to the best of my abilities to help another member.
#2 Wait until the next day when and if I had had time to respond.

Concerns regarding my ability to provide an accurate answer was never in question.

I chose option #1. My comment was only trying to qualify why my response did not include the educational information that I normally include with a response such as this.
Other than having the number miles incorrect, my response is totally on track and does not need sanitizing.

Perhaps you should go look in the mirror.

Oh, if my spelling, grammer or punctuation is incorrect. I don't care. My father was an English teacher and he had enough respect for others to not correct them in public. Maybe that's why he was a better teacher than I will ever be.
 

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:unsure:
Wow, while just trying to relate to a fellow poster that enjoys a drink or two and then is also active on the forum. While not intended, it seems my response had pushed your buttons. In no way was my reply meant to insult you. :censored:
 

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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
After my eye Doctor appointment I went by the shop I trust, driving my Silverado, and talked to them. He is not sure if he can do the "Service bay test" on the evap system, per @Autoprof, on my SSR. Some GM's he can some he can't. He and another guy really think it's a vacuum leak and lean towards the intake. They think I should do the Smoke test, again, engine cold, again, blocking the Throttle body. If nothing, then check intake runners with Berryman brake cleaner, preferably with the engine cold because it's very flammable. Do it while Kathy is watching the 02 readings on the scanner, because I wouldn't notice RPM change, since the computer will make adjustments. The story continues.

Nick
 

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04 SSR
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I would think that with a vacuum leak your short term fuel trims would be higher. Sensor #1 both banks. The screen shots showed they were about dead on close to 0%. One bank was showing a little rich. But I would really want to know what long term fuel trims are running. Other than brake clean I would monitor fuel trims during a cold start.
If both short and long term get to be too high positive it sets a lean code. The bigger issue is knowing what block to look at. So I would suggest check the fuel trim values at more than idle. This is where freeze frame information is valuable.

Freeze frame stores certain engine operating conditions when a trouble code is set. You can review that information to find out what was going on when the DTC was stored and also use it to duplicate the driving conditions. Sadly when codes are cleared so is freeze frame information. Always a good idea to record this information BEFORE clearing codes. Sorry I should have mentioned this before.

Code description from service manual
Circuit Description
The powertrain control module (PCM) controls the air/fuel metering system in order to provide the best possible combination of driveability, fuel economy, and emission control. Fuel delivery is controlled differently during Open and Closed Loop. During Open Loop, the PCM determines fuel delivery based on sensor signals without oxygen sensor input. During Closed Loop, the PCM adds oxygen sensor inputs and level of purge to calculate short and long term fuel trim adjustments. If the oxygen sensors indicate a lean condition, fuel trim values will be above 0 percent. If the oxygen sensors indicate a rich condition, fuel trim values will be below 0 percent. The values for the short term fuel trim change rapidly in response to the heated oxygen sensor (HO2S) voltage signals. Long term fuel trim makes course adjustments in order to maintain an air/fuel ratio of 14.7:1. A block of cells contain information arranged in combinations of engine RPM and engine load for a full range of vehicle operating conditions. The long term fuel trim diagnostic is based on an average of cells currently being used. The PCM selects the cells based on the engine speed and engine load. If the PCM detects an excessively lean condition, DTC P0171 or P0174 sets.

More from service manual
Conditions for Setting the DTC
The long term fuel trim value is more than the calibrated value for approximately 3 minutes after the Conditions for Running the DTC have been met.
Action Taken When the DTC Sets
The control module records the operating conditions at the time the diagnostic fails. The first time the diagnostic fails, the control module stores this information in the Failure Records. If the diagnostic reports a failure on the second ignition cycle the control module records the operating conditions at the time of the failure. The control module writes the operating conditions to the Freeze Frame and updates the Failure Records. The control module illuminates the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) when one of the following occur:

  • The control module detects the same fuel trim failure during 2 consecutive trips.
  • The control module detects any fuel trim failure during any subsequent trip if the conditions at the time of failure meet the following criteria:
    • The engine load is within 20 percent of the previous test that failed.
    • The engine speed is within 375 RPM of the previous test that failed.
    • The engine coolant temperature is in the same range of the previous test that failed.
I believe that freeze frame values for long term fuel trim need to be approx 24% to set this code.
If you constantly find values near 5%- 10% for various fuel trim blocks (cells), I would say problem solved, or not present at this time.

What are your long term values under various driving conditions. Need not be exact number just near 5%, 10% etc. If negative its running a tab rich not lean.

If code does not reset and they can perform service bay test on evap - then you should be able to pass IM test.

more from manual

  1. Install the scan tool.
  2. Start and idle the engine at the normal operating temperature in Closed Loop.
  3. Record the long term fuel trim.
  4. Turn OFF the engine.
  5. Turn ON the ignition, with the engine OFF.
  6. Review the Freeze Frame/Failure Records and record the displayed data for this DTC.
Does the scan tool indicate that the long term fuel trim is greater than the specified value?
24%
Go to Step 4​
 

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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
@Autoprof I don't know when I'll get back to it but here is a photo from 6-2. The last few days Kathy has been watching the scanner while I'm driving and she says numbers change so fast it's hard to see/catch a number. Yes, nothing in Freeze frame. AND no stored or pending codes. Last night was 363 miles since codes cleared and 23 warm ups. For what it's worth cat temps Bank 1 and Bank 2 are pretty close to each other. IF I remember correctly around 800 idle, 1200-1300 around 60 MPH, fluctuates pretty fast on acceleration and deceleration. Oh, bear in mind Harbor freight scan tool, but top of their line at the time.
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04 SSR
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I am not sure of the abbreviation used on your scan tool. But Long Term might be something like
LTFTB1S1 and LTFTB2S1.
These will be displayed as percentages. They will also not change quite as rapidly.
 

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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
@Autoprof, I did some checking. Cold idle-- Values are %--SHRTFT1= -3.1 to +3.9. LONGFT1= 0. SHRTFT2= -3 to +4.7. LONGFT= 0. raise RPM to 1500. SHRTFT1 =-2.3 to +5.5. LONGFT1= +5.5 steady. SHRTFT2= -4.7 to +2.3. LONGFT2= +9.4 steady. I did a video but haven't been able to get it on here. Would it help if I sent/text it to you?

Nick
 

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04 SSR
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Nope, looks good under those conditions.

The block or cells mentioned are a two dimensional array.
Think graph paper with Engine RPM on one axis (let's say horizontal or x axis) and engine load on the other (vertical or y axias).
The create 16 or more blocks within normal operating parameters.
The ECM looks at speed and load on this chart. It knows how much fuel to spray based on original tune, but then looks at the table to determine if it adds or subtracts from the program.

The 2 blocks you mentioned are not to bad. Idle is great. Wonder about cold start and driving. Although a manifold leak would show most at idle.
 

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'06 FPR Smokin Asphalt; '04 Ulta Violet
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
@Autoprof, I noticed in the video the MAP (PSI) fluctuates from a high 9.6 to 2.8. It feels kinda loose/ wobbly in the intake. could it or the rubber seal be bad?

Nick
 
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