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Discussion Starter #1
Looking to pick the brains of you hp/torque gurus...

Mine is an '04 with a tune package and a 410 gear. Got a nice performance bump from those and considering what might be next.

Interested to hear form you all on what the next best "bang for the buck"
torque or hp performance upgrade should be??

Yes, I know... "trade it in on a 6 liter", or, "supercharge it"... Well, sadly those options aren't in the cards any time soon. But I am interested in squeezing a little more torque and/or hp out of it at reasonable costs.

What say you? What's the next rung on the ladder? What would be the expected gains and at what cost?

Look forward to hearing from you.

Wizzr
 

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What tune did you use ? If it's a Flashpaq, they are very limited. A full custom tune will pull much more out of it. Also, what type of driving do you do ? Highway, local ?
Next would be a torque converter upgrade.
Headers, straight through exhaust and A cam would be next in line, but not cheap.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
ssrtruck, thanks for the feedback.

The tune is in fact a superchips flashpaq. It bumped me a little over 20 hp. The best quote I got around here for a "pro" tune was, "maybe 30 hp" at twice the price. Decided the superchips was a pretty goo deal.

Not sure what my "driving type" has to do with torque or hp gains??
 

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Because for traffic you want torque and for highway you want HP. Too many people never learned the difference, that's why they sell so many junk items for as long as I can remember. From My first JC Whitney Catalog around 1952, to the internet, "Buy this Whiz-Bangy Dodad, for a pittance and gain 13.72 HP".
How the hell do you Know? You ain't gonna feel it. 13.72 Ft lbs is another matter, but still borderline depending how sensitive your butt is.
Don't listen to your wallet, it'll lie every time. Either you can afford to make genuine improvements or you can't, but don't waste money half stepping.

Christ, I sound like a preachy virgin school marm, but I can vouch for never teaching school, not being a marm, and far from a virgin. It really chafes me to see friends getting hosed with claims of something for nothing and chicks for free. They end up spending as much or more total on shlt that don't work.
Listen to Mike in AZ, Topspin, Dicktator, LeftCoast34, Jerry Formato at Fasterproms, Autoprof, and others who have been there done that and got several T-shirts.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yup, I completely understand torque vs hp. I thought I expressed that in my post when I said "torque or horsepower". Guess some people can't read very well. Geez, all I was looking for was a little feed back on what peoples perspectives were. I'm 65 and have built dozens of cars. But sometimes someone has a different twist and you don't know unless you ask. And yes, Bruce, you DO sound like a preachy virgin school marm.
 

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Hey wizzr,

The gear set change is an instant 10% increase in rear wheel torque. Simple math tells us this is true. That is the best bang for the buck performance changer on your SSR.

The Superchips change is a reasonable compromise in many people's opinion..... I personally prefer the skills of an experienced SSR tuner. I don't believe the Superchips unit takes into consideration all of the Torque Management variables that GM put into the engine control system. While the overall horsepower change (note that maximum HP is measured well above anything you normally use) is limited to about 10%, there is a lot of performance left on the table when you use an off-the-shelf modifier.

I personally believe that you should measure drive-able performance in torque, not HP. If you look at a dyno chart..... ANY dyno chart....... You will see that torque will always equal horsepower at 5252 rpm. (Make mental note to yourself....... How often do you operate above 5252 rpm????) Look at the shape of the torque curve below 5252 and you will recognize that the fattest torque curve will be what "feels" the snappiest.

Torque Management software is required in the SSR because we have LOTS of torque with BIG tires and a really heavy (5,000 pounds) vehicle. There is a lot of gains that can be given to the SSR while maintaining a safe amount of Torque Management. Without any torque management, you will definitely put the transmission at high risk. With our combination of torque, tires and weight, we have the ability to break stuff if we are not careful. A good tuner will be able to tailor your particular SSR for optimum performance without compromising too much hardware safety margin. There are things like "tip-in" of the throttle that can make your SSR a LOT peppier.

Looking at this in a little different manner....... I consider the shape of the torque curve to be the result of (primarily) tuning accuracy with limitations of the airflow and combustion process. I consider also that horsepower is the result of (primarily) thermodynamic limitations with minor considerations given to tuning.

My suggestion........ Three things...

1) Free up your exhaust system by splitting the "Y" pipe and going to duals all the way back. Use a dual-in, dual-out Magnaflow with a built-in "X" pipe and split your tailpipes apart. This will give you a small bump in low end torque.

2) Consider having a really great SSR tuner get your system optimized. This will give you a broader, fatter torque curve.

3) Understand the limitations of propelling 5,000 pounds. This will let you relax a little about stoplight performance. Do the math.... 5,000 pound divided by 300hp is 16.6 pounds per HP. If you get to 350hp, you will have 14.3 pounds per HP. Still a long way away from the snappiness of 10pounds per HP.....

Sorry for being so long winded...... I just had to get this off my chest.

Regards,

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Great feedback, Mike. Thanks. The info may very well be valuable to many others besides me.

Yes I agree, a pro tune would be better. But considering the lack available "pros" here, and the fact I haven't had an opportunity to make the trip your way, I figured the superchips was a decent compromise.

And yes, again, I understand torque is the measure for most street use. But it's addictive, as you know. Once you get a nibble of it, you want a bigger bite.

I do have a sharp, old school, muffler guy here in town. Perhaps I'll swing by his shop and have a chat with him.

Regards, Mark.
 

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Great feedback, Mike. Thanks. The info may very well be valuable to many others besides me.

Yes I agree, a pro tune would be better. But considering the lack available "pros" here, and the fact I haven't had an opportunity to make the trip your way, I figured the superchips was a decent compromise.

And yes, again, I understand torque is the measure for most street use. But it's addictive, as you know. Once you get a nibble of it, you want a bigger bite.

I do have a sharp, old school, muffler guy here in town. Perhaps I'll swing by his shop and have a chat with him.

Regards, Mark.
Hi Mark,

Let me know when you might get time to come to Phoenix. I work collaboratively with Joe Delano at Left Coast 32 to install performance tunes in SSRs. I handle the download and upload and Joe modifies the files. It takes only a little longer than normal to get the job done.... Estimated time to tune is less than 1.5 hours.

Have a look at the attached photo for a conversation with the exhaust shop.... This is the inlet to the Magnaflow 12568 that I used when I split the "Y" pipe years ago.... I created a thread in fall of 2005, but can't find it now....

Mike
 

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Hi Mark,

Let me know when you might get time to come to Phoenix. I work collaboratively with Joe Delano at Left Coast 32 to install performance tunes in SSRs. I handle the download and upload and Joe modifies the files. It takes only a little longer than normal to get the job done.... Estimated time to tune is less than 1.5 hours.

Have a look at the attached photo for a conversation with the exhaust shop.... This is the inlet to the Magnaflow 12568 that I used when I split the "Y" pipe years ago.... I created a thread in fall of 2005, but can't find it now....

Mike
Mark,
I've also done the same with Joe for the SSR community and am in Las Cruces. So if you get down this way we can do the same closer to ABQ..
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Mike... accidentally came across your previous exhaust post in a rather peculiar manner... I was doing a google image search for magnaflow 12568 and an undercarriage pic showed up. I clicked on it and, well, the rest is history!

hdflstf, thanks for the offer! We should talk details of how that might happen. My wife does prison ministry and we occasionally go to Cruces /ElPaso so she can do here work at the prison in Chaparral.

Mark
 

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Mike... accidentally came across your previous exhaust post in a rather peculiar manner... I was doing a google image search for magnaflow 12568 and an undercarriage pic showed up. I clicked on it and, well, the rest is history!

hdflstf, thanks for the offer! We should talk details of how that might happen. My wife does prison ministry and we occasionally go to Cruces /ElPaso so she can do here work at the prison in Chaparral.

Mark
I'm retired here so I'm around most of the time. I do need to buy the license to flash your SSR computer ($100) so all I ask is to get reimbursed for that. We'll need to chat with Joe so make sure we can get his support and make whatever payment arrangements he needs. Aside from that, we can PM once you have a timeframe in mind.

Art
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Got a quote from the muffler shop for $600. That includes the muffler all the custom bent piping and hangers and installation. Would re use existing tail pipes. Is that reasonable?
 

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Sounds a little high. I paid $350 for cutting the Y pipe into two separate pipes, the MagnaFlow stainless muffler #12568, cut out the old oxygen sensor bung and weld a new one in on the right side pipe, and weld the old tail pipes on. Then a couple months later I had him cut off the old tail pipe tips and weld on Mikes Tips for $40. We are a little behind the times cost wise but you can see he only charged me about $400 total. If it is what you want and feel he will do a good job you kind of have to pay what he says if he is the only show in town. Good luck.
 

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Yup, I completely understand torque vs hp. I thought I expressed that in my post when I said "torque or horsepower". Guess some people can't read very well. Geez, all I was looking for was a little feed back on what peoples perspectives were. I'm 65 and have built dozens of cars. But sometimes someone has a different twist and you don't know unless you ask. And yes, Bruce, you DO sound like a preachy virgin school marm.
I apologize, wizzr. I realized you are looking for bang for the buck, but most low buck bangs are woefully short on delivery to an outright lie. Have fun.
 

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Thanks Augie. I've used this guy several times in the past and I know he does good work. And you may right about his pricing. However, if I'm correct, I think there's a little more plumbing that needs to happen on the earlier cars. The 04 has a single pipe from the Y to the muffler and then a single pipe back to the ass of the truck where it splits to the tail pipes. All that needs to be replaced. The 05 & 06 had dual pipes coming out of the muffler. True? Much less re-engineering.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yes Bruce. Your point is well made. Like most people, you too I'd bet, I don't enjoy paying more than I should. And I don't buy cheap crap. I do my research. I make smart decisions that suit my needs. And yes, I get the best bang for the buck. Just as I'm sure you do. I know you're trying to help other avoid pitfalls and scammers. We've all made mistakes in the past. Heck, we should have a few beers sometime and swap war stories about dumb decisions we've made. I'm sure it would be a good time.

Regards, Mark.
 

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Wizzr: If you look up some of my old posts. I methodically and systematically pushed a 5.3 up over 100 horses with bolt on stuff, all verified with dyno chart. I later just built a 427 and went whole hog. Still have the 5.3 and will one day put it back in. Biggest kick in the pants for me was LS6 heads, ZO6 cam and 456 gears.
 

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Thanks Augie. I've used this guy several times in the past and I know he does good work. And you may right about his pricing. However, if I'm correct, I think there's a little more plumbing that needs to happen on the earlier cars. The 04 has a single pipe from the Y to the muffler and then a single pipe back to the ass of the truck where it splits to the tail pipes. All that needs to be replaced. The 05 & 06 had dual pipes coming out of the muffler. True? Much less re-engineering.


I forgot about all that. Sounds about right then. On mine he used almost all the original piping where he could. Muffler was about the same length as stock and the 05 came with dual tail pipes so all he had to do was hook them up. Good luck.
 
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